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Bridget Liszewski, Kat Jetson, and Valerie Anne take a break from smashing the patriarchy to chat about feminist-y things they love.

Episode 20: The Cursed Episode Transcript

Jul 15, 2019

Join the Feminist Thrilljoys as we discuss a prolific and hilarious creator, an actress you probably don't think about much but maybe should, and a new old-timey show that's about so much more than sinking pits. 

These transcripts would not be possible without the volunteer efforts of our amazing listeners. Huge thanks once again to Liz for helping us out on this episode! Find her on twitter at @Earpnado.

Feminist Thrilljoys – Episode 20 – The Cursed Episode


BL = Bridget Liszewski

KJ = Kat Jetson

VA = Valerie Anne

/ indicates that two or more people are talking at the same time

KJ: Welcome to Feminist Thrilljoys, a podcast where three women take a break from smashing the patriarchy to chat about the feminist-y things they love.  I’m one of your hosts, Kat Jetson.

BL: I’m Bridget Liszewski.

VA: And I’m Valerie Anne.

KJ: That was really weird.  I don’t like it.  I like when Valerie does our intro, but/

VA: /But I’m in time out/

KJ: /for our cursed episode…twenty…I’m sorry, did you want a time out?

VA: No, I said I’m in time out.

KJ: Oh OK.  [laughter] I’m like oh no, do we want to start again? [laughter]

VA: No, I’m in time out because my audio is bad.

BL: Yeah this is our cursed episode that we’ve had so many issues with.  Scheduling issues, recording issues, now we’re having audio issues.  So we’re just going to power through and do this episode and if it’s crap we apologize, but we just have to get over the episode twenty hump.

KJ: That’s right.

BL: So it’s happening regardless tonight, so.  We had our shit together three weeks ago.  Got together and recorded.  We all did great topics…

VA: We had a great time.  We recorded the whole episode. 

BL: An entire episode. An hour and a half.  And then we stopped and we had no file [laughter] and it was so sad.

KJ: I guess it’s OK to laugh about it now.  But also it was a little devastating.  When it happens – we were talking about this after we recorded – sometimes if you interview somebody and you record it and then you look and you see that it hasn’t recorded, your heart sinks and you can’t deal with it, you don’t even know what to do.  That’s what it felt like because, yeah, we put a lot of…I wrote something.  I genuinely, I pulled a Bridget and wrote a lot of my topic. 

BL: You’ll do it again one day.

KJ: I will do it again.

BL: We’re gonna try to keep things shorter this time, just to get this episode done.  Especially now since we’re having issues.  The one thing that I wanted to mention was that Kat, you talked about this a little before, but you now officially are a published Billboard author, so yay!

KJ: Aww, thank you Bridget.  That’s really sweet.  I actually felt a little buzzy inside.  When I saw it online and it’s Billboard and that was my name and I was really excited.  It was a pretty sweet accomplishment.

BL: Yeah, that’s awesome.  Do you want to say what the article is about?

KJ: Sure, it’s about this queercore band started in the 90’s called Team Dresch.  Like so many bands they’re back again, playing some shows and recording.  I appreciate it especially, they just seemed so positive…and I talked about this in the article, but I bought their first album based on album cover alone.  It was two girls that were on a racing track and their pinkies were touching a little bit and they were looking at each other.  It was just what I needed when I didn’t quite understand being gay, so.

VA: Pinkies touching is very gay.

KJ: Yes. [laughter]  So yes, that ran.  You could certainly go and just google Team Dresch, Billboard, and there you would have it.  They’re so sweet and so positive.  I love them, and I’m really happy that they’re back and they’re getting attention.

BL: Well congrats.

KJ: Thanks!

BL: What else did I have?  Oh I just have small things that I’m enjoying right now and I think people should watch and I’ll keep it brief.  The My Favorite Murder Book was excellent.  I liked Vida, on Starz, which was a really good series.  Matt and I are also watching Super Store on Hulu.  We’re in the middle of binging it and I think it’s really fun.  Those are just my three things I want to mention and say that I really enjoyed in the last month and a half.

KJ: Bridget, can you tell me about the My Favorite Murder book?  Is it them talking about how they started, or is it them doing a bunch of murders but in written form?

BL: I was actually just telling my youngest sister about this because she doesn’t listen to the podcast, but I was telling her I think she would really enjoy it.  It’s not true crimey at all.  They talk about true crime insofar as I liked this thing that I didn’t think anybody else liked, and now since I’ve found people that also liked that thing, how special it is.  It’s a lot of them using some of the things that they are well known for in the podcast, like fuck politeness or get a job…take care of your own shit and get a job.  But then they’ll use that as a topic for a chapter but then relay a story from their life. 


BL: It’s all just personal stories from their life basically, but no murders or anything.

VA: I haven’t actually read the book yet but one of the episodes that they released as a podcast episode was a reading that they did, where they read a few paragraphs from the book.  It’s a good way to dip your feet in if you’re not entirely sure if it’s something you’d be into.  I’m really excited to read it.

BL: I didn’t read it, I got the audio version.  There’s a couple of the chapters in there like that, where they were clearly doing it at a live show instead of recording the chapter.  It’s kind of mixed in.  It feels nice to have them reading it.  I don’t know, it’s just like the podcast.  Instead of talking about murder, they’re just talking about their real life.

KJ: That’s good.  I think whoever pitched the idea of a book had to take into account that some people maybe don’t listen to their podcast.  Do you guys want to talk about…you were both at Earp Expo, so.

BL: Yeah, we got back about a week ago now from Earp Expo in New Orleans.  It was an awesome con.  I had so much fun at it.  I think the organizers did a great job.  They’ve already announced that they’re having it next year as well in New Orleans. That was really exciting.  It was a really fun time.  There was a lot of new Earpers there.  I met a ton of people that said this was their first convention ever, so that was really exciting.

KJ: I think the draw would be truly the city.  I know that so many people are like God, I want to go to New Orleans, I want to check out New Orleans.  Bonus, you know, if you love a show and you get to go to a convention, you get to see this great city.

BL: I was really glad I stayed an extra day.  I got to do some extra sightseeing.  We went on a ghost tour the first night. [laughter]  We had fun with that.  We went to the cemetery.  I loved the food down there, it was all kind of spicy, I liked that. 

VA: I got to spend most of the weekend with our own Dani Fucking Kind. 

KJ: [so excited to discuss DFK that she almost sounds like she’s in pain] Oh my Goddddd.

VA: I was her handler, and I fell even more in love with her than I thought possible.  She’s just such an awesome person.  It was really fun to get to spend some one on one time with her.  And also meet the people who were there to meet her.  My favorite part of handling besides getting to know the actors themselves is sitting at the auto tables and getting to talk to Earpers while they’re waiting.  I think I mentioned that before.  I loved getting to talk to people about Dani Kind.  And like Bridget said, a lot of them it was their first con so kind of hearing how they were enjoying it.  It was really awesome.

KJ: Yeah.

BL: Dani Kind is a shit stirrer though. [laughter]  She was seated next to the autograph table that Emily and I were at, and she liked to throw things at us.  Try to start fights.

VA: At one point Dani was like can send a picture flipping off your friends, and so we did.  And they all started sending them back.  [laughter]

KJ: What a way to blow up your phone.

BL: Emily would be having these super serious conversations and then balled up post it notes would come flying into our table.  Or an entire orange.  Or a potato. [laughter]  I was like you are out of control, Dani Kind.  But it was a lot of fun.

KJ: Yay!

BL: I was Emily’s handler, and I’ll just echo what Valerie said.  It’s so nice to meet everybody at the table.  To see how much Emily – we all know – Emily really cares and she loves meeting the fans and the Earpers.  It’s amazing to me how many people she knows and remembers.  Or as soon as they say their Twitter handle, she’ll be like oh yeah, you’re not a stranger, we’ve been friends for years.  We’ve been going back and forth for years.  It’s just amazing to me every time I get to sit next to her while she does that.  How much she remembers of people or genuinely cares.  She’ll know people…maybe because I feel like I’m really bad at remembering names and stuff/

KJ: /sure yeah, uh huh/

BL: /she’s so great at that.  I think it’s because she cares so much.  She really does feel like all of the fans are part of her family.  It’s really special to get to watch it from a different point of view.

KJ: I think I remember…actually one of the coolest memories I have of Emily is about a year and a half ago on Twitter.  I remember it was something like, interact with me and I will say something about you…or whatever.  Everyone that responded to her – and there were hundreds of people – she responded with whatever, she just knew something so specific or personal about that person that they had obviously shared online at some point.  It was really crazy, really intense.  I cannot believe.  She must have some [long pause] what do you call that…that thing where you can remember shit, like I cannot.  [laughter]  Photographic memory, yeah.  That was really cool.  If someone wanted me to explain Emily to them, I would really bring that up as something that was just kind of unreal.

BL: Yeah.  And then the fun thing…sorry, go ahead.

VA: No, I just was going to say I also wanted to give a special shout out to Meghan Heffern because I didn’t realize quite how adorable and funny and great she was.  I knew I liked her, but I got to talk to her a little bit that weekend and she’s just really great.  Just wanted to give her a little shout out.

BL: We now have a campaign that we want to get Meghan Heffern on Supergirl, so we’re calling her Super Heff.  I said that I would watch Supergirl again if Meghan Heffern got on Supergirl.

VA: Which are bold words!  I support that.

BL: I’m putting it out in the universe.

KJ: Is that the only thing that would get you to watch that show again?

BL: At this point right now, yeah.

KJ: Wow, OK.

BL: I just don’t miss it.

KJ: Alright.

BL: I mean unless they want to start putting Lena in sweatshirts every episode, I wouldn’t be mad. [laughter] But the other thing was Krystal did those trading cards for Earp Expo, which I know you really were excited about Kat.  They looked super cool in person.  I know Krystal was nervous about how Emily would maybe respond to hers.  Emily loved it.  It was a little drawing of Emily as a puppet master.  When someone brought it up to her the first time, she was so overjoyed to see it.  She only felt bad that she no longer had bangs.  She was really super excited to see the trading cards.

VA: Yeah.  Dani loved the widows one too.

KJ: Yeah.

BL: So yay, Krystal.

KJ: We might both be going to the St. Louis one.  So hopefully maybe all the Thrilljoys will be in one place again.  Unless you’re not going, I don’t know.

VA: We’ll be there.

BL: We’re both handling there too. 

KJ: OK.  I will be handling Krystal. [laughter]

BL: Heyo. [laughter]

KJ: I’m fine with that.

BL: But yeah, so nice work Krystal.  They looked awesome in person.

KJ: I haven’t even seen them.  I’ll have to see them.

BL: I did not get a set.

KJ: What?!

BL: I know.  I somehow…I would look back at the days and I would be like what did I even do?  It was just a whirlwind.

VA: I have some extra because I bought enough packs so that I could get a full set.  I don’t have a full second set, but I have some that you can have.

BL: Oh, the other funny thing…this is gonna make our episode run so long.  I need to just not tell this story.  I was gonna say how there’s an Emily Andras on Twitter that actually has the Twitter handle Emily Andras, and she’s from New Orleans.  She came to Earp Expo and met our Emily Andras.  It was just hilarious.  She was lovely and so funny, and was all about playing into it.

KJ: I heard she wasn’t even an Earper beforehand.

BL: Her friend came, and her friend was like she’s so famous, and she keeps giving me her purse to hold.  I was like that’s what I do for this Emily Andras! [laughter]  We were like we should get a picture together as purse handlers.  It was funny.

KJ: That’s amazing.

BL: It was really funny.  She came to the table and the Emily Andrases met.  They found out their dads have the same name, and I think their grandfather? It was crazy, there was all this stuff that was the same.  It was bizarre.

VA: Spooky.

BL: So that was really funny.   A highlight.  Thanks to everybody at Earp Expo, they worked really, really hard.  They threw an awesome con.  It was a good time.  I better stop talking about it or I could go another hour.

KJ: OK, Bridget, go.  Your subject.

BL: OK.  Nobody else has newsy notesy?  OK.

KJ: Go, go, go.

BL: OK.  I’m doing the topic that I did on the lost episode. [laughter] So Kat and Valerie already heard me go on about this for a really long time, so I’m gonna try to be brief.  I’m still just as obsessed.  I’m doing Phoebe Waller-Bridge, and I’m just as obsessed with her as I was a month ago.  They’re letting me graciously keep her as my topic and do her over.  But yeah, she’s the actress and writer that’s behind Fleabag, which is a series that seems like it’s everywhere that I turn.  Especially with the Emmys being announced soon.  Fleabag, which is a BBC comedy that just finished it’s second season, and then she also is the person that developed and wrote the first season of Killing Eve.  I’m obsessed with her [in a voice so excited we should start calling her Phoebe Waller-BRIDGET] SO MUCH.  It’s been about two to three years since the first season of Fleabag and I never watch television shows over lately.  It seems like I’m always behind on so many shows I don’t have time to rewatch something.  But I’ve seen the first season of Fleabag probably five times.  It’s only six episodes, and it’s short half hour episodes.  But I’ve watched it over and over and over because I kept…it’s just so good and I felt like I got something new out of it every time.  She finally came out with season two of it this spring and it’s like…I keep saying that I fear that Fleabag season two has ruined me for all other TV [laughter] because I love it so much. But I guess just for those that don’t know, Fleabag was a one woman show that Phoebe Waller-Bridge had developed.  It’s about this woman that she just runs a café and she’s dealing with family and dating relationships after the death of her best friend and her mother.  You just kind of follow her and her family relationships.  She has a sister that she doesn’t get along with that great and then she’s kind of having sex all of the time.  She uses the sex to deal with all this grief that she feels over losing her best friend.  I guess I billed it too much as a comedy to Valerie, and then when Valerie watched it she was mad. [laughter].  I didn’t say that it can be very sad, especially in season one.

VA: I was ready for a fluffy time.

KJ: [laughing] Fluffy time!

VA: It was indeed hilarious, but no one warned me about the underlying [dramatically] DEVASTATION [laughter] I would also feel while I was laughing.

BL: I know, I’m sorry.

VA: So you’ve been warned now, listeners, because yikes.  [laughter]  But it’s worth it.

BL: But it’s so fun because she breaks the fourth wall and she does it in a really cool way.  By doing so it’s like we the viewer have this secret relationship with her.  It feels so special.  It’s exciting because she’s talking to us.  The way that season one ends, you kind of didn’t know how she was going to continue this gimmick in season two, but the way that they do it in season two, it’s brilliant.  Season two is more of a love story and a lot more upbeat than season one, so. [laughter]  Sorry, Valerie.

KJ: Did they put it all out at once? Were you done and then you’re just like oh my God I have nothing to watch until they get to season three?

BL: There’s not going to be a season three.

KJ: [shocked scream]

BL: She’s done.  I’m actually fine with it.  I’m so not even mad because the last episode, especially the last five minutes, are the most perfect thing I’ve ever seen.  You just feel so satisfied.  I’m OK with it.  But yeah, because it started as this one woman play – so she even had to figure out how to do season two.  She reperformed the play in New York this spring and then she’s doing a couple performances of it in London, but then she said she’s definitely done with Fleabag and not doing it any more.  But I think it was weekly on BBC, but they released it all at once on Amazon.

VA: I made the mistake of watching all of season one and all of season two in one sitting on a Saturday.

BL: You’ll never learn. [laughter]

VA: I know.  I had a great time.  It was amazing, but then it was over.  I had one day of Fleabag and then never again.  [laughter]  I recommend savoring it a little more than I did.  But I just loved it so much.

BL: I did the first two episodes and then I watched, and then I actually didn’t watch the last episode of season two for over a week.  I was like I refuse to watch the last episode because then it will be over.  But then I finally watched it and it was so good.  So good.

KJ: You have such self control.  It’s amazing.  [laughter]  I could never.  If someone feeds me four episodes of a show, like gives them to me beforehand to whatever, write about them or do something.  I watch all four.

BL: But then it’s over!

KJ: I know, but it’s over no matter what.

BL: Also because I know I normally don’t have time to go back and watch those four episodes again, so I don’t want to miss something because I’m flying through it.  I don’t know. [laughter] I don’t know.  I had to watch three episodes of Killjoys once in one night and it almost killed me.  I felt so bad. [laughter]

VA: I remember that.  She was traumatized. [laughter]

BL: I was like they work so hard and I just sped through these episodes.  I didn’t even appreciate it.  I was so, I don’t know.  Maybe because I always am hearing about all the stuff behind the scenes and how much work gets put in behind the scenes, I feel bad blowing through stuff.  I don’t know.  Also, I just genuinely don’t have time.  Anyways Fleabag is the most perfect show ever and I don’t know how I’ll ever find anything – I think we joked to my friends – I’ll never find another Fleabag, or looking for my next Fleabag or something on a tshirt.  I really should’ve just done Fleabag as my topic.  But in trying to be short, I’ll say that Phoebe Waller-Bridge, like I said, developed and helped create Killing Eve.  She wasn’t the showrunner for season two of Killing Eve because she was working on Fleabag.  She’s going to be writing on the new James Bond movie to add a feminine voice to it and to inject some comedy into it.

VA: Hell yeah.

BL: I don’t know.  I could go on.  I’m not going to, but I could go on for hours.  I have three other pages of notes.  It’s so sad to me because I feel like I’m glossing over a lot. 

VA: Then why are you, just tell us about it?

BL: I can’t.  I have to be ready for bed time.  I have to help with bed time in a little bit at my house. [laughter].

KJ: We’ll just pause you.  Put them to bed, come right back. [laughter]

BL: No.

KJ: OK.  I was trying to help you out.

BL: She has a new series coming out, or she’s going to be working on on HBO.  It’s called Run.  It’s starring Merritt Wever, who I love, who’s an actress – kind of more of a character actress in the past.  But I really love Merritt Wever, she co-created it.  I kind of love, I found out more about this when I was researching her, she does a lot of projects with her best friend Vicky Jones.  They met when they were cast in a theater project together when they were younger.  They opened their own theater company together in 2007, and I know she worked on Killing Eve with her and everything.

KJ: Bridget, I’m sorry.  You cut out just for that little bit that you said. 

BL: OK, I don’t even know what I said. [laughter] I just love Phoebe Waller-Bridge.

KJ: This episode is wild.

BL: I just need a shirt that says I pray, I worship at the alter of Phoebe Waller-Bridge, and that’s all it should be. I’m just obsessed with everything about her.  Her look, her fashion.  I don’t know.  She’s so smart too, and witty.  The way that she writes female characters.  If you look at the ones in Killing Eve, the way that she made Villanelle so hilarious and funny because she knew that that’s how she could endear the audience to this female assassin was through humor.  My mom does not understand when I tell her Killing Eve is one of the funniest shows on TV.  She’s like ugh, it’s all about killing.  I’m like you watch it, how do you not laugh hysterically at Villanelle?

VA: She’s so good.  Even while she’s murdering people.  She will be actively stabbing a man and making me laugh at the same time.

KJ: I get this Bridget, though.  Sometimes you love something so much, it falls on either side of the hill.  Either you could talk about it endlessly or sometimes the emotion is so big, so great, that you just want to be like I love blank, and fuck you if you don’t.  [laughter] That kind of explains it all.  You’re on both sides of the fence.

BL: It’s exciting to see people now…so many things being written about season two of Fleabag because I do think there was a lot of stuff that was said about Fleabag season one, not as much.  It seems that she’s really…I feel like it was Michelle Lovretta, my other favorite, who one time tweeted something like where are all my articles about Phoebe Waller-Bridge?  It was during the first season of Killing Eve.  I think Lovretta is obsessed with her, as I am.  We were like why are there no pieces with her or speaking to her?  It does seem like now she’s everywhere.  She was on the cover of British GQ.  The Hollywood Reporter had her on their roundtable.  She does seem to now, with season two, be everywhere, which is really exciting.  Oh, the other one I’ll recommend is there’s a series called Crashing that’s on Netflix that she did around the same time as Fleabag, and it’s only one season, six episodes, but it’s also really good.  So go watch that.  If you have watched Fleabag and now have nothing else.  [laughter]

VA: I remember when Fleabag season one came out, a few people were talking about it but not a ton of people.  It was called Fleabag, so I was like no thank you. [laughter]  It wasn’t until season two came out that everyone was talking about it and I was like OK, OK.  I agree that for some reason…and the first season is so good.  So it wasn’t that that was keeping people from talking about it back then.  I don’t know what it was.

BL: It’s really good.  I’ll keep going, but [laughter] the writing was so smart.  There’s an episode where Kristin Scott Thomas guest stars in season two, and her and Phoebe Waller-Bridge are sitting at the bar, and there’s this scene and Kristin Scott Thomas gives this speech about the pain that women deal with or the pain that women take on and have to push through every day.  It’s so brilliant.  I only bring that up because my friend Nic is finally watching Fleabag and she got to that episode last night and I think I woke up a DM that just said oh my God, Kristin Scott Thomas’ speech!  It’s so good.  There’s lots of moments like that throughout the whole season.

VA: Also Olivia Colman.

BL: Mhmm.

KJ: Mhmm.

BL: In like a really kooky, hilarious role.  Totally different than The Favourite. [laughter] Anyway, thank you for letting me go on a second time about Phoebe Waller-Bridge.

KJ: I don’t think this is going to be the last time.  [laughter]  This is just a topic.  I don’t think that she’s never going to be brought up again.  Just so you know, she is open to discussion in any podcast following this.  You know, hopefully they record and we all hear it continuously.

VA: Listen, if we have to have a Phoebe Waller-Bridge corner of this podcast every time, I’m not going to be mad about it.

BL: I’ll just be like guys she did this. Look at this picture that she took at this photo shoot. [laughter]  Thank you.

KJ: PWB corner.  Oh gosh, you’re done.  Really?

BL: I am.

KJ: Are you sure?

VA: I thought you had three more pages.

BL: I do have a quote.  My one quote, which I think got spread on Twitter was that she said to the Hollywood Reporter in that one roundtable…this is what I’ll leave you on.  She said: “I write women who don’t give a shit because I’m teaching myself how to be one”.

VA: Nice.

BL: Phoebe Waller-Bridge is the best.  Boom.

KJ: Bitch! [laughter]

VA: Does that mean it’s my turn? 

KJ: It is your turn.

VA: OK, mine is going to be short.  It’s more like a PSA because I learned something about Jennifer Garner that I didn’t know, and so I feel like more people should know about Jennifer Garner.  If you had asked me three months ago, would you ever do Jennifer Garner as a topic on your podcast?  I would’ve been like…no?  [laughter]  She’s fine.  I never watched Alias but I respect it.

BL: [gasp] I loved Alias so much.

VA: My dad loved it, so I’ve seen a few episodes.  It is on my very long list of to watch some day.  I love 13 Going on 30, it’s a great movie. [laughter] She was excellent in Love, Simon.  I enjoy everything I’ve ever seen her in, but I don’t really think about her that much?  I don’t know.  She’s just kind of this person who is often in movies I enjoy.  I wasn’t even following her on Instagram.  I just never really thought about her.  David Tennant, I’m sure y’all know…Doctor Who…he’s an actor, he’s great.  He has a podcast called David Tennant Does a Podcast.  Very creative.  Actually I found it because his first guest was Olivia Colman.

BL: I listened to that one.  I loved it.

VA: Yeah.  It was so good.  So I was kind of jumping around to other…I’ll probably go back, he gives a good interview so I’ll probably go back and listen to the people I don’t even know, but I started with the names I recognized.  He had one with Jennifer Garner, and I was like that’s kind of interesting.  It was so cute.  Apparently they recorded it in her house when she was in her pajamas.  She was like I feel like I should’ve given you matching pajamas.  I guess they had known each other for a year.  He kept asking her questions, and she kept being like wait, are you really interviewing me?  She didn’t really believe they were recording the podcast.  I thought we were just talking, you’re really asking me interview questions.  OK, alright, we’re in this.  She was like hustling non stop.  She was working in local theater, she was doing all kinds of little gigs.  The part in Alias was essentially written for her. 

BL: She was on Felicity with J.J. Abrams.  She actually went to college at Denison in Ohio which is where my sister went too.

VA: Wow.

BL: I’m sorry, I’m done interrupting you.

VA: No, those are good facts.  Yeah, J.J. Abrams basically wrote Alias with her in mind for that character.  She was talking about how she did most of her own stunts.  Her weeks were so long.  She had to do so much stunt training and rehearsal on top of table reads and rehearsals and actual shoots.  She was just working constantly.  So she was talking about all this stuff.  They kind of turned away from acting, and they were talking about she’s an activist, but like legitimately constantly working for things that she believes in.  One of her first things was when she had kids, the paparazzi was following them around a lot to the point where it was like kind of scaring her children.  They would be outside their school or outside their karate classes.  She was saying I signed up for this because I’m an actor.  To some extent I went into this knowing that paparazzi were going to take pictures of me.  But my kids didn’t choose this.  It’s not fair to them.  To a five year old a camera and a gun look the same.  Someone is popping out of the bushes and yelling at them to look at them, it’s scary.  So she worked with California officials and got laws passed about where paparazzi can be.  I guess she had her daughter give a speech at the hearing.  It was a really lovely story.  She was like this is a problem and I’m going to be on the ground and I’m going to help fix it. 

BL: These are her kids with Ben Affleck, right?

VA: Yes.  Are all of her kids with Ben Affleck?  I don’t remember if all three of her kids are with Ben Affleck or if one of them is with someone else.  She actually didn’t mention Ben Affleck at all in the interview, which I respect.  She’s an ambassador and is on the board for an organization called Save the Children.  It’s an organization dedicated to ensuring that children in, specifically in countries affected by armed conflict, that they get a good education.  Wherever there are children in crisis, they sort of redirect and go help.  She goes there and interacts with the children.  Her Instagram is full of her being so sweet with all of these children.  It’s just so pure!  She’s doing a #SparkKindess initiative with Walmart right now.  She literally said kindness is contagious because that’s something we say in the Wynonna Earp fandom a lot.  One of her most recent posts was, the Children’s Hospital held a prom for its long term patients.  There’s a video of her helping this girl pick out a dress and try her dress on, and twirl around for it.  Just so sweet and pure and beautiful.  She also was down at the border.  She went to New Mexico for Save the Children for the migrant families and the children who have been separated from their families.  She gave an interview talking about how these kids are hungry and scared but they’re still kids, so they were just so happy that someone was reading a story to them.  At that moment all they wanted was a little bit of joy.  To act like kids for a few minutes and not have to worry about anything.  It was just really great.  I just didn’t know any of this about Jennifer Garner.  I wanted to kind of boost her because she’s doing a lot of really great work, working non-stop.  She talked a little about being a workaholic but not feeling stressed about it.  She’s just like when I have time I want to fill it with helping, and she does.  And I thought that was really cool.

KJ: What prompted this?  Was it something that you saw specifically that was like I want to find out about Jennifer Garner?  Was it just the David Tennant thing?

VA: Yeah it was just the podcast.  Hearing her talk about it on the podcast.  I was like she sounds way more cool than I thought she was.  I just didn’t know.  I didn’t really know anything about how she spent her time.  If she was in a movie I knew she was working, she was in it.  That was it.

BL: It’s like that shitty thing too where she only gets press if it’s something with her marriage or divorce from Ben Affleck.  That’s what I hear about all the time.

VA: Yeah.  Her Instagram is…I highly recommend it.  It’s very inspiring.  She actually has like, here are some actionable things you can do to help.  It’s also very joyful.  It gave me hope about situations that I felt pretty hopeless about.  She’s doing great work and I support her.  Suddenly I’m a bigger Jennifer Garner fan than I ever anticipated being. [laughter]

BL: I went and followed.

VA: Yay!

BL: You at least got me.

VA: There you go.  And that’s all I needed.  I #SparkedKindness. [laughter]

KJ: She is a person that I never thought we would talk about ever, for sure.  I think that says something about her.  When I saw that I thought God, you know, I don’t ever really think about…I feel like I’m being…I’m not trying to be disrespectful.  I never think about Jennifer Garner.  She shows up and I don’t ever mind her.  I’m just like oh there she is, and I know she’s going to do a good job acting.  I know nothing beyond her acting.  I’m like she’s gonna be in this and she’s going to be good.

VA: There’s a certain light about her.  I see her and I smile automatically.  I’m like oh, there she is.  I know her.

KJ: Alright.

BL: I did really love Alias back in the day, like hardcore.  She’s also a very talented actress.

VA: It’s funny because I feel like a lot of the roles she’s taken in the years since then…I mean she was Elektra.  So there was that.  I guess as you get older Hollywood changes the roles they offer you.  She’s not in the superhero scene now.  A lot of times people are either on that path or they’re not.  She’s kind of bounced around.  She’s also in the movie Butter, which I will mention when I redo my lost episode topic because somebody else is also in that, that I will talk about at a later date. [laughter]

KJ: OK.  She was also in Dallas Buyers Club, did either of you see that?

VA: No.

BL: No.

KJ: Yeah, she was in that.  I just appreciated her in that movie because it was a really heavy movie and she was the lightest part about it.  It was a good movie. 

VA: Yeah, she’s been in so much that is great. 

KJ: Consistent.  Is that it?  The transition between our topics is always very awkward and difficult.  We’re just like and that’s it, and a hooray. [laughter] We have to work on maybe a little smooth…actually we don’t have to work on anything.  I love us exactly as we are.

BL: I do want to listen to that podcast though because I listened to him talk to Olivia Colman, like you said.  David Tennant.  And then he had Krysten Ritter on and he had Tina Fey.  I just never listened to the Jennifer one.

VA: I listened to Olivia Colman.  Whoopi Goldberg gave a good interview.  Jodie Whitaker was great.  That was really great.  She’s hilarious.  But that’s all I’ve listened to so far.  He’s done some cool people.  Samantha Bee, he’s done.  I really recommend it.  He’s very charming.

BL: He is.

KJ: I love Samantha Bee.  I feel like I should talk about her one time.

BL: Canadian.

KJ: Mhmm.  Yup.  We could the do the Canadian Corner.

BL: I’m still sadly not a Canadian. [laughter]

KJ: I mean I could have been and I chose not to, which is unfortunate.  I mean I still could.  OK.  I have twenty four minutes to talk about my topic, which I don’t need.  So we’ll get done in plenty of time for bed time, Bridget.

BL: I have more Phoebe Waller-Bridge. [laughter]  Just kidding.

VA: We’ll circle back if we have to.

KJ: OK I’m going to talk for nine minutes.  I’m going to give up my last fifteen minutes for Bridget.

BL: I don’t need it. [laughter]  Go ahead.

KJ: So I am going to talk about Gentleman Jack.  I’m playing the role of, I think, Bridget and Valerie here in that I watched a television show that was brand new, and I fully immersed and obsessed and watched it.  I watched one episode one day and the other seven on Sunday.

BL: Pulled a Valerie. [laughter]

VA: Ironically, I didn’t do with that show.

KJ: Did you watch it while it was happening?

BL: I did.

VA: I did watch the first three episodes the day after I watched all of Fleabag.  But the rest of them I watched week to week.

KJ: I feel genuinely smitten by this show.  While I feel like there’s a lot of things about it that could kind of seem not interesting…

VA: Are you referring specifically to sinking the pits?

KJ: Yes.

BL: Can you tell briefly what it’s about?

KJ: Sure, of course.

BL: Sorry.

KJ: I always need Bridget to reel me in.  So it’s about a real life person that is not living anymore.  It’s about this woman, Anne Lister.  Early 1800’s.  I was going to say which century but centuries confuse me.  It’s like, what is that, 19th century then?  Is 1800’s.  I always hate that that’s that.  Right, do you know what I’m saying.

BL: Yeah.

KJ: So it’s based on her diaries.  She kept very complete and voluminous diaries.  She kept most of them in code because she was a lesbian, so in order to sort of protect probably herself and other people she wrote them in some weird algebraic/whatever code.  They were decoded in the 1900’s.  All the stuff I’ve read, every interview or every article, will bring up something and just be like known as kind of the first lesbian.  It’s like well, let’s just calm down there.  Very outspoken and dressed not at all the style of anyone in the 1800’s.  It’s basically…she wears a top hat and a pocket watch and a cravat.  She looks fuckin awesome. 

BL: She wears black.

KJ: She wears black all of the time.  Her reason for wearing black was she went to a wedding once, and she was depressed about the wedding.  So she just started wearing black and has been mourning that person getting married ever since, which I thought was pretty hysterical.

VA: And extremely gay.  That’s like peak drama is wearing black because the girl you love got married to someone else.  [laughter] Amazing. Amazing.

KJ: I should say that Anne Lister, this woman, is played by…I don’t know how to say her name. Suranne Jones.  Do either of you know?  Both of you watched.

VA: That’s my best guess.

BL: I know her from a show called Doctor Foster that she was in with Jodie Comer from Killing Eve, which is also on Netflix and a good watch.

VA: What?!  Jodie Comer too?

BL: Oh yea.

VA: I gotta go guys. [laughter]

BL: I feel like I’ve screamed about this in DM’s with somebody that you should’ve been in the DM with.

VA: Put me in the goddamn DM, Bridget. [laughter]

KJ: Start a DM after this, and just talk about that.

BL: Anyways, she’s in lots of good BBC shows.

KJ: One thing, while I was watching this, I don’t know why, but I really wanted…this woman does an amazing job of playing this character, I think.  I just imagined Gillian Anderson in this.

VA: Oh, Kat.  My friends and I discussed your tweet about this last night over drinks, and we think it’s a bad take.

KJ: OK, that’s fine.

VA: We were just like but Suranne is so good!

KJ: No she’s wonderful.  I just think that…I just thought Gillian Anderson could just really pull it off.  She’s got that great accent, and oh my gosh.

BL: Maybe you just want another old timey lesbians project with Gillian Anderson.

KJ: That would be fine. [laughter]  But she’d have to wear a top hat.

BL: Hopefully a different hair style though.

VA: I hate the ringlets so much.  The hair is so distracting.

KJ: I thought about that too, I was like God that’s hideous.  But what can we do?  That’s was kind of what they…were dressed as.

BL: Yeah, they all have ringlets. 

VA: And the smooshed down hair on top of the ringlets is what bothers me I think the most.  It’s half of a smooshy bun and then half ringlets.  It’s like make up your goddamn mind.

BL: As my mother would say when we ask her why were wearing things in pictures, she would just say [imitating her mother] Bridget, that was the style. [laughter]

VA: It does make me appreciate the moments that they’re sitting in bed together with their hair all down.

KJ: Yes!

VA: I’m like oh!  I like this a lot actually.

BL: I didn’t realize her hair was that long.

VA: I know!

KJ: I think what I also appreciate about this show is that she’s so unapologetic about her whatever you want to say.  She’s obviously very smart, and a pretty good business woman if you want to get caught up in that part of her story.  She’s just really clever and witty.  Clearly charming.  Also a scoundrel.  It’s nice to see a woman in the role of being kind of like a womanizer.  I had to laugh because she becomes obsessed with many women, but during this show, this other woman Ann Walker, who she ended up spending the rest of her life with.  Her short life, I should say.  She asked her to move in with her and get married before they even had sex.  I was like even in the 1800’s…lesbians were like…the U-Haul version of it was…

VA: Ye ole U-Haul. [laughter]

KJ: Was like…they were sleeping over and they were “friends”.  I was like damn, I guess no one suspected anything but like holy cow, right?

BL: Just gals bein pals.  [laughter] There was that one other kid though in that show that asked the other younger girl to marry him and he didn’t seem to know her very well either, so.

KJ: No one knew anyone really well back then.  You only lived until you were like 40 and then you died of dysentery, so just do it. [laughter]  The first person you meet, just give them a ring, give them an inscribed bible and ask them to be yours.  Even if you don’t speak their language apparently too. [laughter] It was actually…the parts that made me feel the most were when she did let down her guard.  Clearly she was trying so hard.  People were like you should just get married, even if you get married…have like a beard basically.  You should just do it.  It will stop the questions or the questioning.  She just didn’t.  She just refused to do it.  But when she did break down and be vulnerable she admitted that she does get hurt and she’s not always as strong as everyone thinks she is. 

VA: [crying sounds]

KJ: What’s that?

BL: She’s crying.

KJ: Oh, OK. [laughter]

VA: It was a beautiful line.

KJ: Yeah it was.

VA: I’ll admit that for the first half of the season I didn’t think she actually loved Ann Walker.  I thought she was trying to use her to get married and use her money or whatever, and I was mad about it.  And everyone was like she’s just being like all the men of the time.  And I was like well I don’t think they were behaving very well either.  But then once she did start letting her guard down it became clear that she was actually in love, so that made me feel better.

BL: I just wanted to talk about how it was Anne and Ann, but go ahead.

KJ: And the aunt who actually seemed pretty chill about her being a lesbian was named Anne as well.

BL: I’m like are there no other names?  What’s happening? [laughter]

KJ: That’s it, that’s all you get.

VA: It’s also very gay to fall in love with someone with the same name as you. [laughter]

BL: Kat, did you see the new Fangirl shirts?  Gentleman Jack shirt?  It says Anne and Ann and Aunt Anne and Aunt Marian or something.  It says them all.  It’s hilarious. [laughter]

KJ: Oh my God I haven’t seen that.  I have to look.

BL: I’ll send it to you. 

VA: I want them to make me a special one that also says Valerie Anne at the end.

KJ: Oh, yes!  I feel like everyone I’ve talked to about this show just in the past couple of days is just like I don’t know, I liked it.  I’m not certain what it is that really has me so interested.  I think it’s just…I love witty, snappy dialogue.  I love a sassy woman.  I do love black as well, so.  I love the color black.  I wear black all the time.  I did think it was interesting…the first ten, five minutes of the show they broke the fourth wall.  I was like they are not breaking the fourth wall in this show…

VA: Can I tell you that I started Gentleman Jack the day after I watched all of Fleabag, so I thought I was hallucinating.  [laughter]  I was like wow, I watched so much Fleabag I’m hallucinating people looking at me now. [laughter].

KJ: I was like I don’t think I’m going to like this.  They didn’t do it so much…it is heavy.  It’s pretty heavy.  I enjoyed it.  I liked it.  I thought they had fun with it in one scene.  The other person that was with her was like what are you looking at? She was like nothing.  I was like that’s pretty clever.  I don’t know, I just…sometimes you can’t explain why you love something so much.  I can’t put it into words.  It’s just a feeling.  Whatever it is, it got me to watch an entire season of a new show in a day.  That’s pretty impressive.  I’m not saying it’s all good or it’s all perfect, but I’m saying it’s all good and perfect for me.  I don’t know.  It really worked, I had a good time.  I also saw that they are renewed for a second season.  I have to say that I don’t know that I need a second season.  I’m so happy with this as it is.

VA: Yeah it didn’t quite end it.  I’m curious as to…

KJ: Sometimes people don’t know how to end shows.  It’s fine.  I promise you, it’s OK to just have the one season.

BL: Sometimes they don’t, and sometimes they’re Fleabag season two.  Just saying. [laughter]

KJ: It also made me realize how happy I am that I’m not gay in the 1800’s.

VA: Yeah.

KJ: It would take so long to get to stuff. [laughter] Like I don’t have time for this.

BL: You have to write real letters.

VA: Also you can’t visit someone for an afternoon.  You have to go visit them for three weeks at a time.

KJ: I mean that’s what I do right now with my Canadian wife.

BL: I will say as the non-lesbian that watched it…[laughter] I liked it because I thought, like you said, the performances were really good.  It was a nice epic love story.  It had an epicness to it, especially near the end.  I watch every HBO show with captions because I for some reason never can hear HBO shows right.  My favorite part of Gentleman Jack was that it literally always said jaunty music. [laughter]

KJ: I was wondering why you said that to me.  I was like I don’t understand.

BL: Just once, watch it on closed captions.  It’s all throughout the episode.  It’s the theme song and every time Anne is walking in the mines, it’s like jaunty music.  It’s so great. [laughter]

KJ: Also she’s got a walking stick that’s really fancy.

VA: Her walk in general.  Her saunter is so good.  The one time she wears a dress and still walking like she’s wearing a top hat and pants.  I died.  I was like that’s how I feel when I’m wearing a dress.

BL: That’s what I thought.  I was like is that how I feel with a dress on?

VA: It was so funny.

KJ: Just clunking around.

VA: Still power walking.  [laughter]

BL: There were so many little good details and moments like that.

KJ: Yeah.  And she is really funny.  I enjoyed so much of this character’s humor and snappy dialogue.  There were just a few moments where I really was so heartbroken.  A friend of ours, Nic, just posted something that Suranne – I’m sorry if I’m saying her name wrong – posted on Instagram.  She just posed a picture of her and the other character, Ann, and she just quoted I understand every day I think about it, but you came so close.  When she was going to be with her, but then decided that she wanted to marry some dude just like every other person every other woman that she was with decided to marry a man, and she was just so heartbroken.  Gosh.  Yeah.  I loved it.  Lots of heavy petticoating.

VA: Also that actress Suranne looks amazing in real life when she’s not wearing that stupid hairstyle.  She also gives a good photo shoot.  I highly recommend looking up some of them.

KJ: Alright, I’ll check her out.

VA: You wouldn’t really know it because of the fucking hair. [laughter]

KJ: Maybe next season she’ll convince them to totally go off plot.  You know how like Nicole Haught is not even wearing a uniform, like a sheriff whatever, cop uniform in season two.

VA: Unbuttoned all the way down.

BL: She has unbuttoned shirts.

KJ: She’s just wearing a jean jacket in season two of Gentleman Jack. [laughter]

VA: Gentleman Jack jean jacket, I love it. [laughter]  Even if she had her hair like one of the men’s hairstyles.  Everyone else’s hair is good.

BL: During Gentleman Jack I did that thing where I feel like Valerie has said male blindness…I sometimes had no idea who the men were.  I’m like they’re all just talking about coal.  I don’t know what is happening here.

VA: Male pattern blindness for sure.  The only part that I remember that didn’t involve the Ann(e)s was when that man got fed to the pigs.  [laughter] That was great.  I liked that part.

KJ: And I really did want to know, would a pig eat a human?

BL: I think so.

KJ: Oh damn, that’s intense.

BL: There was some really gross pig scenes in Hannibal one season.

KJ: Also they mixed…they kept going back and forth to the pig part the first time that they were having sex.  I was like wait, what are you doing?  This is a horrible time to do this.  [laughter]  That was my one issue with it.  It also must have been really cool I think for this actress…I don’t know, can you imagine going on to set and just wearing all those clothes.  Forget about the hair, just forget about it for a second. Just wearing this outfit.  It had to have felt kind of like how James Bond felt the first time he puts on a tux.  Whatever actor plays James Bond.  It just looks so cool, it looks so cool.

VA: I actually got to watch the finale at A-Camp.  Autostraddle Camp.  We watched it on the hill projected on one of those big outside screens.  HBO co-sponsored the camp, so we got to see it a day early.  Fancy.

KJ: Oh nice!

VA: It was cool to watch on a hill outside with a bunch of queer people with Heather Hogan dressed as Anne Lister.

KJ: What?

BL: She looked awesome, I saw her.

VA: And she was jauntily walking around.  She was so good.  And honestly I spent half the finale just watching Heather watch it because it brings her so much joy.  It was so wonderful.

KJ: Also funny that you watched it on a hill.  The whatever, the summit of the story at the end took place on a hill. 

BL: No more spoilers.

VA: Oh yeah, we spoiled the whole thing.

KJ: A pig eats a human, so there you go.  I just really loved it.  Kat Jetson watched a new series.  No one even told her to watch it.  I’m like OK, I gotta see this.  This woman is all dressed in black and I know it’s gonna be pretty gay, so.  I genuinely loved it.  I really, really, really loved it.  So much so that the parts that she wasn’t involved in a scene or something I was like OK, I’ll watch it.  I’ll wait for her.  It’s worth it.

BL: Coal, blah blah.  Coal, blah blah blah.

VA: Constantly sinking the pits. So boring. [laughter]

BL: I legit didn’t know which of those British men were who.

KJ: No clue, no clue.

VA: I was like is this a good guy or a bad guy? It didn’t matter.

BL: It didn’t.  In the end I still don’t know what’s happening…

VA: Don’t care about the pits.  I just cared about Anne and Ann.

KJ: Two minutes to spare, do you want to talk about Phoebe Waller-Bridge for two minutes?

BL: No, I’m good.  I will say on Autostraddle too you guys had on your Instagram people doing the official readings from the real Anne Lister’s diary.  Those were so funny.

VA: Yeah.  Her diary is a lot.  It’s great.  I’ll put a link in the show notes, Autostraddle’s written about Anne Lister.

KJ: I really want to see the picture of Heather Hogan, is that something that she shared?

VA: I think it’s on her Instagram.

BL: I sent it to you, Kat.  I already put it in a DM to you.

KJ: Oh yeah!  I’m so excited, thank you so much. That’s so sweet.

VA: I’ll see if there’s a public post that I can link too in the show notes also.

KJ: Yeah, I don’t want to invade.  I follow her on Twitter, I think she follows me too.

VA: I’m pretty sure she posted photos of it.  It was great.  She should if she didn’t.

KJ: OK.  Alright.  Well, I’m all done.  We’re all done.

BL: Yeah.

VA: We’ve done it!

BL: Get this cursed episode out of here.  [laughter] 

VA: I hope that you can hear me at all throughout the entire episode.  Deb gets it and is just like why is it only Kat and Bridget? [laughter]

KJ: What I tried to do was keep quiet when you were talking.  This way she could bump you up without bumping all of us up, you know what I’m saying?  She could maybe when you’re talking just bump up the audio.  Do you want us to send you an Amazon gift card to get a new headset?

VA: No, I’ll just get one all by myself.  Thank you though. [laughter] Maybe I’ll even upgrade and get an even fancier one.

KJ: Oooooo, girl.  OK.

BL: It would be funny if there’s a lot of Anne Listers at Halloween.  A lot of people with ringlets.

KJ: I thought about it already, but I’m already going to be Adam Ant, so.  Same difference. Literally the same thing. [laughter]

VA: Just change what you say depending on who asks.

KJ: Yeah.

BL: Alright. Good job guys.

KJ: Annie.  Let’s have Annie take us out.  Annie!

BL: Bye.

KJ: Bye.

Annie: Follow us on social media.  We’re on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram @FemThrilljoys.  If you have any more thoughts on this episode or in general, you can email us at  And last, but not least, if you’re feeling extra generous, please rate and review us on iTunes.  Thanks!

[end podcast]