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Bridget Liszewski, Kat Jetson, and Valerie Anne take a break from smashing the patriarchy to chat about feminist-y things they love.

Episode 8: Bold Hype Transcript

Aug 21, 2018

Join the Feminist Thrilljoys as we discuss a bold TV show about three fierce friends, an old movie that still packs a punch, and a new musical based on a badass woman's best-selling album.

These transcripts would not be possible without the volunteer efforts of our amazing listeners. Huge thanks once again to Liz for helping us out on this episode! Find her on twitter at @Earpnado.


Feminist Thrilljoys – Episode 8 – Bold Hype


BL = Bridget Liszewski

KJ = Kat Jetson

VA = Valerie Anne

/ indicates that two or more people are talking at the same time

VA: Welcome to Feminist Thrilljoys, a podcast where three women take a break from smashing the patriarchy to chat about the feminist-y things they love.  I’m one of your hosts, Valerie Anne.

BL: I’m Bridget Liszewski.

KJ: And I’m Kat Jetson. 

BL: Yay. [laughter]

KJ: It’s been awhile.

VA: I was gonna say, I feel like it’s been a long time since we’ve chatted.

KJ: Mhmm.

BL: I think it’s only been like over a month, but it feels like ages.

KJ: Right.  I think…let’s start with all the…let’s make it real sad.  I feel like my life has been insane.  I feel like I’ve neglected everything but family and work.  Some of you who are listeners maybe know or don’t know, my mom passed away a couple of weeks ago.  I just moved, of course, and started a new job.  It was literally all in two weeks’ time.  So that was a little crazy.  It’s weird the things that you feel guilty about.  Like I felt guilty about not talking to people enough, or not…I don’t know.  I did feel guilty about like, I can’t do a podcast.  I didn’t do a podcast with Kevin.  It’s like why am I so concerned about that?  But it just felt like normalcy was gone from my life, so yeah.

VA: But it’s understandable.  None of us were like, where is she?  Why doesn’t she want to podcast right now? [laughter].  You had so much going on.

KJ: Yeah, it was crazy.  But all of my boxes are unpacked and I live in a place, and it feels really good.  I’m at a good place.  I’m ready to just Thrilljoy with my friends.  I’m pretty excited about the topics today, so.

BL: I think everyone understood that you needed to take some time and deal with that.

KJ: Yes, and I would like to thank my co-hosts Valerie and Bridget.  I got a lovely card and a donation to the Lung Cancer Association.  It was so sweet.  Really…handwritten.  Handwrite some notes people.  It means so much!

BL: When I was handwriting it though, I realized how much I don’t write anymore.  My hand was cramping at the end of it.  [laughter]

KJ: The words just kept circling around, it was great.  So thank you guys.  Ladies.  It really meant a lot to me.

VA: Well we love you.

KJ: Awww, thank you, thank you.  Alright, enough of that.  Let’s forge ahead.

BL: Happy times. [laughter]  So we just did the big two hour, our last episode was like two hours on Wynonna Earp.  We warned you guys we were probably gonna have Wynonna Earp corner from now on.

VA: And our first newsy notesy thing is in fact, about Wynonna Earp/

KJ: /Is Wynonna Earp.

BL: There was a lot of Wynonna Earp though this week that happened when we were recording.  The new pictures came out first, I think.  Was that first?  On Entertainment Weekly.  And somehow everybody got insanely better looking.

VA: I don’t know how.  Every time you think it’s impossible, you’re like are they human anymore?  Have they ascended? [laughter] They’re gorgeous. 

BL: There’s magic in the snow out there in Calgary.

KJ: There kind of is.

BL: I know.

KJ: Yeah, I think it’s funny.  You kind of wait for these moments.  You know if you’re excited about a show, you’re like oh they’re going to release some photos beforehand.  And then you’re going to see a trailer.  Then the first episode.  You wait for the level of excitement.  Like how do you top the level of excitement. We’ve been waiting for nine months for some new Wynonna Earp content, and of course not disappointed.

VA: Yeah.  I was worried the build up to the trailer was so much.  We’re all so excited.  I had people texting me like I want to go get food but I’m afraid to move in case it drops while I’m not at my computer. [laughter]  And I’m like it’s not going to disappear, it’s gonna be ok.  I was worried that the build up was too much, and that no human created thing could meet such wild expectations.  But it really did.  Everyone was so happy and I was so happy.  It was such a good trailer.

KJ: I love any moment of…one of my favorite things ever is slo-mo. Especially when it involves gorgeous ladies. [laughter] And Wynonna, or Melanie Scrofano, whoever you want to say, riding a mechanical bull in slo-mo and just alcohol spilling…you’re just like this is so hot.

VA: That was the best thing I’ve ever seen in my whole life.  Her hair just magically flailing about.

BL: Here I thought you were going to talk about the part at the end where they’re walking slo-mo, but of course you would’ve picked the bull, what was I thinking. [laughter]

VA: Mechanical bull is very important to me Bridget.

KJ: I mean, are they at Pussy Willows?

BL: That’s what I’m hoping.  Or some other…they said they had a bunch of strip joints in town.  Maybe it’s some fun new locale.  I’m here for it.  But yeah, it looked like she was back to her old season one partying ways, so that’s exciting.

KJ: Also not pregnant.  I mean not that we know of, I don’t know maybe she is.  Maybe they just wrote it in for fun later on. [laughter]

BL: Yeah I thought it was interesting because last year the trailer had a very different feel to it.  It was so like upbeat and fun, and there was Dom cheerleading.  This year it’s like oh crap, this shit is serious.  It had such a different tone to it, I thought was interesting.  The stakes are higher.

VA: That score, that very specific Wynonna Earp swelling of that Wynonna Earp score…I had a visceral reaction to it.  I was so excited.  It’s what they use at the height of every dramatic moment and it’s very effective.  I love it.  I’m ready, I’m ready.

KJ: Yeah, there was no baby in that trailer.  Little baby just like…

VA: A Baby Bjorn while she has her gun out. [laughter]

KJ: Covered in like, armor. Tiny baby armor, suit armor.

VA: Little tiny helmet.  [laughter]

BL: No, baby Alice must still be off with Gus somewhere.  Everybody looked so good in that too, so…I was glad to see Nedley, I was glad to see Bobo.

KJ: He looks like he was at the bottom of a well.

BL: Yeah, he looks like he’s still where we left him.  I thought Chantel Riley looked awesome as Kate too.

VA: Yes, I’m so excited to see her.  I liked the shot of her standing next to Wynonna.  They were both like guns out side by side.  I’m here for her.

BL: She was kissing on Doc, so I’m a little weary about her.  That’s my man, so. [laughter]

VA: Yeah but that’s how you felt about Rosita, and you ended up loving her until/

BL: /I know, I’m going in with an open mind, but I’m just saying…I see you Kate, I see you. [laughter]

KJ: Maybe she’s the new person to hurt Waverly Earp.  Maybe they just get a new person that kisses Doc, but/

BL: /Now you’re coming for Valerie. [laughter]

KJ: Sorry!  I mean she’s very bloody in this.

VA: I know.  When she screamed Wynonna, I was like…Andras, we’ve talked about this.  Hurting Waverly is not OK.  But also there was one shot of Mama Earp where she looked like Waverly, which I thought was really interesting.  Especially considering Waverly’s origins are so up in the air.

BL: And Mama Earp was holding Peacemaker, so I want to know if she’s gonna be able to shoot Peacemaker or what’s going to happen.  I don’t know.  I feel like we could talk an hour on this trailer, we better move on. 

VA: Good point, good point. 

BL: Anyway, go watch the trailer if you haven’t seen it.

KJ: See that, we just talked for ten minutes about a ninety second trailer.  You both said it, we could literally just stay on that subject, and that’s the beauty of Wynonna Earp

BL: Yes.  So I can’t even imagine what the premiere week is going to be like, especially now because they said that the premiere is coming out early on Monday, so.  July 16th. 

KJ: Right. 

VA: Oh man, our next one’s about Wynonna Earp too.

BL: Oh yeah, I put this one on.  It’s like adjacent.  It’s not all Wynonna Earp. [laughter]  Look, they know what we’re about.  We’ve made it perfectly clear.  I put on, I wanted to bring up there was a podcast called How Do You Like It So Far.  The host is a professor I believe at USC.  Which I won’t hold that against him since I went to Notre Dame.  He had Mo Ryan, she was a TV critic at Variety, and now she’s freelancing for The New York Times, TV Guide, a whole bunch of places.  She was on with Emily Andras and another woman, which now I feel bad because I don’t have her name.  They were talking about queer representation on TV and what harm tropes like Bury Your Gays and stuff can have on fans, and then they were just having this larger discussion about what is the relationship between creators and fans.  How much should creators engage with fans now that we have social media and things like that.  It’s an hour long podcast.  When it was done I wanted it to be like five hours more, it was so interesting.  I can always listen to Emily talk, and then Mo Ryan, Valerie knows is like my personal hero.  She is so smart about so many things in TV, and she’s just…I don’t know how she does it, but she’s a genius.  I wanted to recommend that people go and listen to this podcast.  I’ll put it in the notes.

KJ: It’s open on my web browser here, I just started listening to it yesterday.  Just to touch on Mo Ryan for a second.  How great that her voice gets to be dotted all over the place now instead of just in one place.  I’m really excited about that because she is such a great writer. 

BL: Yes.  And I think part of the reason she quit at Variety was so she could work on a book, so that’s really exciting too.

VA: Oooooo.  That’s very exciting.

KJ: Do it lady.

BL: And thank you Mo Ryan for all of the awesome Wynonna Earp coverage because that’s another cool thing about her.  I feel like a lot of the big TV critics don’t pay much attention to the small little genre shows, and Mo’s always done that.  I’ll stop, because again [laughter] I could go on forever, but yeah.  This is a good podcast episode.

VA: Nice.  Our next newsy notesy thing actually happened just moments before we started to record.  On Twitter, Din/Cakes. @DinMeitar. 

KJ: Meitar I think it is.

VA: Meitar?  Made us a Feminist Thrilljoys cake!

KJ: Yeah, yeah.  Lightning bolts everywhere. 

VA: A cake!  It’s a cake!  What’s happening?

KJ: She’s really wonderful.  I met her.  I talked to her a few times before, and I met her at ClexaCon.  She was so sweet.  She gifted me a ticket to meet Natasha and the information was wrong on my ticket that I had.  They updated it later on and I didn’t know or whatever.  It was so frustrating and I never got to do it, but she gifted me a very expensive ticket.  I still wanted to thank her again.  Which I’ve thanked her like eight million times before for that.  But yes, she’s an amazing…I guess chef? Pastry chef?

VA: Baker.

KJ: Mhmm, baker.

BL: Yeah, I’ve seen some of her other cakes, but I never expected to get a cake from her.

VA: It’s a Feminist Thrilljoys cake!

KJ: What does she do with the cake?  Like right now, what is she going to do with that cake?

VA: I hope eat it! [laughter]

KJ: It’s so sweet.

VA: Eyyyy, sweet.  Get it, it’s a cake.

KJ: Eyyyyy. [laughter]

VA: I’m gonna go drink some more coffee, hold on. [laughter]

KJ: Yeah. So thank you so much Din. 

VA: Yes!

KJ: Yes, she has done some amazing cakes beyond just ours, but we got ours! Heyyy!

VA: I can’t even believe it.  I’m still surprised that people who aren’t related to us listen to this. [laughter] So it’s really amazing.

KJ: Even when I see, even my own girlfriend, when we Skype or whatever, and she’s wearing a Feminist Thrilljoys shirt.  I’m just like, oh honey. [laughter]

VA: Yeah, when I was at A-Camp, the Autostraddle camp that I go to every year.  Nic, New Jersey Nic, was there.  One day she came out with a Feminist Thrilljoys t-shirt, and she had her water bottle with a Feminist Thrilljoys sticker. I was like hype girl, what are ya doin?

BL: Her job. [laughter]

VA: She was like every time someone asks me about my shirt I pitch the podcast to them.  I was like you’re so sweet.  It’s very cool to see that people are digging this.

KJ: Mhmm.  Especially our friends.  I mean, they’re our friends, and they would probably listen because they’re our friends. So thank you, friends.  And thank you other people that we don’t know yet.  I say yet because I’m sure we’ll say words on Twitter or something.  So thank you for listening.  And wearing our rad shirt.

VA: Yeah.

BL: Okay.

KJ: Can I ask you guys a quick question before we head to episode topics, because I don’t think this will be maybe a quick answer…

BL: Oh no.

KJ: It’s more like a comment.  Since your Supergirl podcast…

BL: [laughing] Yes…

KJ: Are you guys…see I was schooled and now I know who these people are, but now I hear that it’s heartbreaking for people.  Are you guys heartbroken?

BL: I’m first and foremost mad that they finally did break Valerie.

VA: Aww, Bridget.

BL: Like that’s my number one reason why I always want Supergirl…I’m like be the show that Valerie wants you to be.  Because you always loved it way more than I love it.  But yes, I formally broke up with it this week.

KJ: Oh man, that’s hard.  It is hard.

VA: Bridget officially quit.

BL: I did.  It’s been like, a long time coming, as I said on the show.  I don’t know, the last few weeks it just felt like a chore for me to watch.

VA: It’s also saying something because there’s only like two or three episodes left in the season/

BL: /Yeah, I was firmly trying to stay til the end of the season, and then the last three weeks I just have not wanted to watch.  And then I watch it and it just confirms that I shouldn’t have watched it, so I’m just like I’ll come back if my friends tell me it’s been consistently good for weeks.  It can’t be one of those like hey, we got our shit together and did this awesome episode.

VA: Because they’ve done that a few times the end of this season.  They’ve had some really good episodes and then they’ll have an episode and I’m like what’s happening?  Even my dad last night, who doesn’t really think critically about television, he likes it or he didn’t like it.  He was even like talking about how disappointing it’s been.  Kara was reunited with her long lost mother, who she thought was dead her whole life, or since she was twelve.  The moment was so anti-climactic.  There was no emotion behind it.  Yesterday on the train I ran into a girl I went to college with who I hadn’t seen in ten years, and it felt like a very similar…the height of the emotion was oh hey what have you been up to?  What have you been up to?  And that’s what Kara did for her mom.  Missing her mother was part of her character development throughout season one…

BL: Yeah, that was a major thing in season one.

VA: Yeah.  So the fact that they couldn’t even nail that emotional point was really disheartening.  I loved the show so much.  It was easily one of my top three favorite shows of all time.  If you had asked me in season one or two, like what are my three shows, it would’ve been Buffy, Wynonna Earp, Supergirl.  Easy.  And now, my last recap wasn’t even really a recap.  It was a letter to Kara Zor-El, being like where’d you go?

BL: I was going to say, I wrote about why I broke up with hit, but read Valerie’s one instead because it’s much better.

VA: No, yours was good too.

BL: You state much better why, what’s wrong with everything.

VA: I’m more sad than anything.

BL: That’s what I said.  I was like I hope I’m wrong.  And I hope I can come back and be like take me back Supergirl.  You’re great now.  I will come back.

VA: I really want to attribute…they had a lot of behind the scenes chaos this year, especially towards the end of it.  I’m really hoping it just kind of went off the rails and they lost control of it a little bit.  I’m not ready to give up on it quite yet.

BL: I’m done.  [laughter] I’m out.

VA: I’m hoping that next season will start back on track, and will be able to get back to the show that it was.  Or something different.

BL: I think it’s hard to do twenty some episodes now.  I think they had a lot of weird breaks that weren’t their choices, but I just…no.  It’s just no from me.  Not even Lena can keep me right now.  I’m just gonna watch all the Lena only clips on YouTube after the fact.

KJ: I didn’t mean to break your heart.

VA: Oh, you didn’t break my heart, Kat. Supergirl did.  [laughter]

KJ: Just to come back to it, just because there was so much love.  You guys really…

BL: Alex is like on her own other show completely.  We could spend ten minutes talking about what are they doing with Alex, whatever.  It’s got a lot of problems.  The main one is that Supergirl herself is not the same character that she was at all.

KJ: Maybe they should just get Janelle Monáe as Supergirl. [laughter]

BL: Kat’s solution to everything is Janelle Monáe. 

VA: I mean it can’t hurt.  Adding Janelle Monáe to anything can’t hurt.

KJ: That outfit would be soooo much better. [laughter] On to topics. 

BL: Sorry. So I’m first, right?  That’s what we decided.

KJ: That was our big decision before we hit record, uh huh.

BL: I know, and I forgot already. 

VA: It’s literally in the sheet, Bridget.  Follow the outline.

BL: I’m not on that outline, sorry.  I switched to my outline.

VA: Oh, so sorry.  Outlines on outlines.

BL: So I’m doing a show that does give me a lot of joy.  The opposite of Supergirl. I’m doing The Bold Type that’s on Freeform.

VA: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!

BL: I was going to say Valerie feel free to jump in at any point because I know you’re a big fan too.

VA: I love it.  I am, I am.  OK.

BL: So, for Kat and other people that might not know [laughter]

KJ: For Kat, who doesn’t watch any television and everyone else.

BL: I think you would very much like The Bold Type, Kat.  It’s very fun.  It doesn’t require tons of thinking, and I don’t mean that in a bad way.  I just mean it’s an enjoyable like, I want to watch TV let me watch something fun.  And feministy, and there is gay, so.  There you go.

KJ: I’m there.

VA: And the gay is great. 

BL: So The Bold Type is on Freeform, it’s coming back for season two July…no June 12th.  But the first two episodes are already on Hulu I believe.  So you might have watched them early.  It’s about three young women that are working at a big fashion magazine in New York City.  One of them is Jane, she’s a writer.  And then Kat is the social media director, and Sutton who is an assistant when the show starts but she wants to work in the fashion department.  It’s just kind of following…they’re like best friends and it’s following their relationships as they work at this magazine.  That’s the basic premise.

VA: And Kat is the one that’s queer.

KJ: Nice.  That is true.

VA: I don’t know if she identifies as bisexual, or just…I think she just kind of is like I am into this woman now.  She’s just sort of figuring all that out.

BL: Yeah I was going to say at the beginning of season one she meets Adena, who is the woman that she’s in a relationship with eventually.  Adena is a Muslim fashion photographer. She meets her, and I think she tells her she doesn’t date women, or whatever.

VA: Cause Adena is a lesbian, and it’s part of her political art stuff.  But yeah, go on.

KJ: Also, what a name.  When you date…now you date somebody and their name is like Jo or whatever, you’re like it’s not Adena.  Wouldn’t you just based on name alone be like I gotta give this a shot. [laughter]

BL: We got you with it’s gay, and there’s a character named Adena.

KJ: I love names, yeah.  Go.

BL: But that’s one of the…their relationship is one of the things I love about the show.  I shipped them so hard in season one.  Their whole arc.  I was like every week…it was like that good old like…I don’t know.  It’s so fun when you’re really into a relationship on a TV show I think.  So yeah, Kat, when she started season one never had a relationship with a woman.  And then she starts to feel attracted to Adena.  It’s just really cool cause they’re also both women of color, which is really cool.  I don’t know, it’s just a really good little love story to follow in season one.  I don’t know if Valerie wants to add anything else about their relationship.

VA: Just that it’s amazing.  [laughter] It felt unique.  It felt like a new story.  It wasn’t really…it was nice to see like Kat’s friends being supportive, and just excited for her.  It wasn’t a huge thing that it happened to be a woman that she was into.  It was kind of just…they had a few discussions on it that were great.  But overall it was just them being excited for her.

BL: And them being like yeah she’s great, go for it. Which is one of the things I love about the show is the female friendship that’s at the center of the show between the three of them. 

VA: Right because that’s my favorite thing about the show is that their relationship is the most important thing, narratively.

BL: Yeah, and they have great chemistry.  I feel like the actresses really work well off each other.  It’s super believable that they’re actually three best friends.  They all work at the same place, but they show them in and outside of the office, how they support each other through…they have different health issues that they have to deal with in season one.  Relationship issues and work issues.  The show just always, as we said some other shows forget is the most relationship, they don’t, like Valerie said.  It’s cool to see women supporting women, and having that be celebrated.  Because we’re always seeing these shows where women are fighting against each other when they have these big career goals, but that’s not here.  Here it’s like hey you guys can all be friends and you can all go up the corporate ladder together.  You don’t have to fight against each other.  I don’t know, that’s how I’ve felt with women in my life.  I don’t have to compete against them.  We can all go together.  This feels more true to me than the shows where they’re all backstabbing each other and everything.

VA: Yeah, and I like that when they do fight it’s not like the end of the world.  In so many other shows…I get that it’s drama or fiction or whatever, but they have one fight and it’s like the end of their friendship for weeks or whatever.  It’s this whole dramatic thing.  But these three will have disagreements, they’ll have fights…one of my favorite scenes between the three of them, they were in one of their apartments and fighting, and I think Kat was like I want to storm out right now…sorry, I don’t remember who said it.  Someone was like [angrily] I want to storm out right now, but I can’t.  The other person who she was fighting with was like [angrily] just use my room, and she’s like [angrily] thanks.  And then when in and slammed the door.  They were fighting, but it wasn’t too deep, you know what I mean?  It was like we’re having this fight, we’re having this disagreement, but it’s not affecting our friendship at its base.

BL: We’re still gonna be friends after this.

KJ: Right, there doesn’t need to be that much drama.  That height of drama to the point where it’s detrimental to friendships.  Yeah, I get that.

VA: And it felt like real life.  Every disagreement you have with your friends shouldn’t end the friendship indefinitely, because that’s not a very good friendship. [laughter] It’s fine to have an outburst and need some time and then talk it out, and I think they do that very well.  Cause they’re adults, you know?

BL: For sure.  It’s very unabashedly feministy too.  They talk all about women’s health issues, women taking control of their own body, they talk a lot about sexuality and sex.  They talk about faking orgasms and all kinds of stuff.  It feels really important too that it’s aimed at a younger audience, because I think this is stuff that younger audiences need to see.  Even before all the Me Too stuff came out they had episodes dealing with sexual harassment and assault.  Kat is the social media director so there’s an episode where she’s dealing with internet trolls.  It seems like they’re continuing that too in season two.  The first two episodes that I’ve seen, they’re still hitting all of those topics.  They talk about racism.  Adena has some stuff with her immigration status, so they’re dealing with immigration reform.  It’s a very timely show.  A huge feminist lens, so that’s pretty cool. 

KJ: I’m not taking away from what you’re talking about, but my subject does seem to resonate a little bit…it mirrors yours a little bit, but much older.  But go on.

BL: Mine is the new generation of your topic, yeah.  I know, I didn’t even think.  Oh my God, where was I?  I didn’t even think that when you said what you were doing and what I was doing.  I’m sorry.  Aww, man.

KJ: Aww, man.

BL: I ruined this.  It’s my fault.

KJ: Stop.  Go, go.

BL: OK, the one thing that I really love is my favorite person on the show is Jacqueline, who is their boss.  And she’s played by Melora Hardin, who is from The Office.  I always think of that she’s from The Office, that she played Jan on The Office, and I’m always like how is this the same woman that played Jan on The Office.  I think we’re used to seeing this evil, bitchy boss, like Devil Wears Prada.  And that’s not what Jacqueline is at all.  She’s very caring, and she supports the three girls.  I don’t know, I think it’s just like…she really proves that you can be supportive and care for your employees and it doesn’t make you unprofessional.

VA: Every time she is reasonable, it surprises me.  Even though she’s always been very kind and like…but firm and powerful.  Like this isn’t good enough, but in a nice way.  Here’s how you could make this better.  You’re not pushing yourself and you should be.  Very mentor-like and firm, but never cruel and never mean or bossy just for the sake of being bossy.  It’s never a power trip for her.  It’s really refreshing to see.

BL: Yeah cause she exudes all this power and confidence.  You do expect her to be like, no, blah blah blah.  I don’t know.  She’s like one of those women where it’s like I made it to the top and so I’m gonna keep sending the elevator back down to bring other people up with me, which is really cool.

VA: Awww, that’s a beautiful phrase.

BL: I don’t know, I think we all deserve a Jacqueline.  And I’m always like I wish she was my boss.  She’s the best.  That’s my favorite character on the show.  But I love Kat and Adena.  What else do I have in my notes?  Oh, the music!  I think the music is really fun on the show, I think they do a really good job.  They have a great soundtrack.

VA: Yes, I agree.

BL: But, that’s all I really have, I guess.

KJ: What?

BL: I know, I kept it short.  I told you.

KJ: [whispers] What? [laughter] I don’t even…like I settled in.

BL: I know.  I’m sorry.  I was worried, I will say I was worried.  In season one they had a showrunner, Sarah Watson, who was the creator of the show.  She had written on Parenthood, I loved her episodes that she wrote in Parenthood and some other stuff.  But she is not part of the show in season two, so I was really nervous because to lose her voice I thought that might affect the show.  But from the first two episodes I’ve seen of season two so far, it’s still the same show.  I really enjoyed it.  The girl that they have now that’s showrunning I know wrote on Sweet/Vicious, which was a really great show.  Really great feministy show.  Hopefully it just keeps going forward with the same stuff in season two that made us feel great in season one.  It seems like so far that that’s what they’re doing.  So watch The Bold Type on Freeform or I think it’s on Hulu.  So, catch up.  It’s only ten episode seasons.

KJ: Is the first season on Hulu as well?

BL: Yeah, I think it’s on Hulu and it’s on Freeform’s website.

KJ: Alright.

BL: I’m done.  I’m sorry.  I feel so bad. 

KJ: I’m next, right?

BL: I know.  I feel so bad.

VA: Why do you feel bad?

BL: Valerie, Valerie, you didn’t catch it either.  Valerie knew what we were both doing too.  I’m going to blame you too.

KJ: There’s nothing to catch, it’s totally fine. We could just…

VA: Isn’t it good that they’re similar? [laughter] You can do like, parallels?  I mean I don’t know anything about Kat’s topic really, so it’s not my fault. 

KJ: OK.  So I’m going to talk about the movie.  The 1980 movie, 9 to 5, because I like to take it way back or be very current.  So there’s no in between for me.  Valerie, you’ve not seen this movie?

VA: I have not.  I do know the song.  [singing] Workin 9 to 5…

KJ: Yeah! [laughter]  And I know we’ve discussed how we all as a three people group love Dolly Parton, and we talked about maybe all talking Dolly one time.  Which I don’t see why we couldn’t.  But it stars Dolly Parton, she’s Doralee Rhodes.  Lily Tomlin as Violet Newstead. Jane Fonda as Judy Bernly.  Which every time I hear her name, Bridget maybe only you’ll understand this.  Judy Bernly, please hold.  Judy Bernly, please hold. [laughter] 

BL: I know.  I have very fond memories of this move, but I will confess that it’s been years since I watched.

KJ: I will remind you.  I will totally remind you.

BL: Did you see that Dolly just got that Netflix deal, by the way?

KJ: Yes, I did.  And that’s also the reason why I wanted to…I think it’s still topical.  All of these women are still very current and in the industry, and successful in this industry.  Clearly Dolly Parton just got a deal. Lily Tomlin and Jane Fonda both are in Grace and Frankie

VA: Which is amazing.

BL: Hilarious in that. 

VA: They’re so good in that.

KJ: And the last news I heard about this was earlier in the year they wanted to reboot 9 to 5 with all three women involved somehow.  It didn’t say.  I don’t know that they’ll be starring in it, but involved somehow.  The co-writer of this movie, Patricia Resnick, was to be involved too, but wanted Rashida Jones on board.  If you don’t know Rashida Jones, she was on Parks and Rec

VA: Ooooohh.

BL: Ooooo, that would be great.

KJ: Yeah, so…and I didn’t even tell you about this movie because I guess in my head I know exactly what it is.  It’s a comedy.  It follows three female secretaries.  That word seems so dated.  Who basically just get revenge on their…the tagline the sexist, egotistical, lying, hypocritical, bigot boss.  [laughter]  His name is Franklin Hart.  It just shows women in the workplace and how they’re sort of looked over for promotions because they’re women, or they’re treated poorly, or there’s you know even just…it’s pretty much still current.  Pay gap, sexual harassment at the workplace, it really does touch on all those things without it being really heavy.  It’s actually…I hate that I’m saying this, but it’s actually quite funny.

BL: But it is fun, it’s a fun movie.

KJ: Mhmm.

VA: What year did it come out?

KJ: 1980.  I had a really…I still have a really cool aunt.  But when I was younger, I was 9 when this came out.  She used to take me to all of these rad movies.  We saw 9 to 5, M*A*S*H, and I mean…we saw some great stuff.  But she took me to see this, and I remember they say throughout the movie that the boss is a sexist, egotistical, lying, hypocritical, bigot.  And I knew none of those words except for lying. [laughter]  But they said it so much that, like when I was younger I used to be like mom, he’s the sexist, egotistical, lying, hypocritical, bigot. [laughter] It’s also Dolly Parton’s first theatrical movie, and she only did it if she could write the song and perform the song. 

BL: She wasn’t in a movie before this?

KJ: No. 

BL: That’s so crazy.  She’s such a good actress.  I can’t believe that.

KJ: Yeah.  And every movie she’s been in except for Steel Magnolias, she’s sung the theme.

BL: Oh, Steel Magnolias, I love that movie. [laughter] I won’t go there, I won’t go on a tangent. 

KJ: So basically, I love this movie because Lily Tomlin’s character is…she would be kind of for me the centerpiece.  She’s just kind of like a higher up in her division, and clear that she takes care of the entire office…and her boss, who’s played by Dabney Coleman, who is the total 80’s douche guy.  He showed up in every movie wearing a really tight vest, and he had his moustache.  He was in War Games and he was actually in On Golden Pond as Jane Fonda’s husband or boyfriend or whatever he was.  God, what else was he in…

BL: I was gonna say On Golden Pond, that’s what I was going to say.  I feel like he was in some TV show?  Go ahead, I’ll look him up cause I feel like he was in some TV show.

KJ: I’m trying think…he was in a movie that was something else.

BL: He was pretty well known for something else and I’m drawing a blank.  Sorry, go ahead.

KJ: So as someone who worked in an office my entire life just about.  I mean, since I was 17 I was working in a law office, so.  But nothing like this.  All the lawyers I’ve worked for have been really nice.  I do love one of Jane Fonda’s first day at the office…the mail guy, he’s like lady, you’re gonna hate it here.  I just love that the mail guy knows all, you know?

VA: Yeah, all the hot goss.

KJ: Yeah. So, holy shit.  Where did my brain go?

VA: Sorry, I distracted you.

KJ: Lily Tomlin!  Lily Tomlin.  So she’s like the head of the office.  And Dabney Coleman is her boss and she trained him.  But he leapfrogged, got, you know, the job that she wanted because he’s a man, and nobody wants…I think he said something like nobody trusts a woman with numbers or something like that, so.  [sounds of disgust]  He gets her job, he’s totally hitting on Dolly Parton’s character, like grossly, grossly.  He’s all over her, buying her gifts, sending his secretary out to get her gifts.  And then Jane Fonda’s character, she’s newly divorced, never had a job.  She gets this job, she’s like a little mousy character.  Doesn’t know what to do, is a total failure in the office.  [laughter].  Violet, Lily Tomlin, kind of takes her under her wing.  They’re sort of like, hating on Dolly Parton’s character because they think that she’s screwing the boss.  They come to find out that he was lying about it, of course.  All three of them conspire…they all just get together, they’re drinking, they’re like this office sucks, blah blah blah.  They smoke the marijuana cigarette, which is a joke.  That’s in quotes.  And they get drunk and they each have their own fantasy of how they would off their boss.  [laughter]  Jane Fonda’s was like a…she was a safari hunter and just shot him and mounted him because he had a deer mounted/

BL: /That’s right, I remember that/

KJ: /On his office wall.

VA: Amazing.

KJ: So that’s her fantasy.  Then Doralee, Dolly Parton, she like rodeo’d him.  Lassoed him, got him to the ground, and hogtied him.  [laughter]

VA: Also approved.

KJ: And then Lily Tomlin, Violet’s character was like a Snow White sort of character.  I think he always asked her to fetch his coffee.  He’s like make sure you put in skinny and sweet, that’s like a Sweet’N Low or something like that.  Her thing was that she was Snow White, but the little birds flitted by and gave her poison instead of the skinny and sweet, it was like rat poison or something.  [laughter]  And then you know, he died.  And then the next day, they go into the office, back to work you know.  Violet grabs…should I be telling you this entire –

BL: I mean it’s a 1980’s movie, so/

VA: /The statue of limitations for spoilers is up.

KJ: OK.  So anyhow, Violet thinks that she kills her boss.  She put the rat poison in his coffee, but then he hit his head before he even drank the coffee.  But they think that they’re the reason that he’s in the hospital right now, and all he did was bump his head.  So he’s gone, he left, but they grab some other body in the office that they think is his.  They take it home, they realize it’s not him.  They go to the office the next day.

VA: Wait, wait.  So sorry.  May I interrupt you?  What do you mean some other body in the office?  Why was there another body in the office? [laughter]

KJ: Another body in the hospital.  Another body in the hospital.

BL: The hospital. [laughter]

KJ: They realize it’s not him, so they have to bring it back.  They go back to work thinking their boss is dead, and they’re like we don’t know how we’re going to get through this but let’s just go to work.  And they see him, but then he finds out exactly what they did from the office tattle tale, so he’s gonna black mail them.  Like you’re gonna have sex with me and you’re gonna do…whatever, all this bullshit stuff, you know?  Then they’re like we can’t let this happen.  So they…I can’t remember how this transpired.  But they kidnap him and tie him all up at his house.  They send his wife on vacation.  They send the office snitch to France to learn how to speak French.  They do all these things under his signature, right?  They start changing the office, they find out that he was involved in some sort of money scheme at the office.  Doing some bullshit.  So they’ve got this guy tied up at his house, but they like kind of take care of him a little bit while they’re whipping the office into shape.  They start all these programs like the work share program, child daycare.  They implement all of this stuff in the office.  He finally gets away, he goes back to the office, and he’s like alright all of this is changing.  You ladies, blah blah blah.  The main head guy of the company comes in, and he’s like Frank you’ve done a great job here.  I love what you’ve done.  He’s like OK…he doesn’t realize he did any of this stuff, right?  Violet and the rest of them did everything.  They changed the office.  He’s like I like you, I want you to come work for me in Brazil.  He’s like…Brazil?  So, they get him gone, and they have taken over the office.  They didn’t get the credit, but they got the boss gone. [laughter]

VA: That’s very funny.

KJ: Yeah.  It’s really…there’s so many great little moments.  It shows you Violet is a widowed mom of four, and she’s installing a garage door opener.  She’s taking care of business at home.  I don’t know, it’s just…and Judy, her ex-husband, she was so needy for him.  At the end she’s like I don’t need you.

BL: It’s just so crazy they put that out in 1980 too.  All those women are so awesome, and they still are awesome.  They’re like, legends.

KJ: Mhmm.

VA: I mean we’re still thirsty for female led movies like this.  Look at how excited we are for Ocean’s 8, so the fact that this was happening in 1980 is pretty amazing.

KJ: Mhmm, yeah.  I don’t know.  It’s such a fun movie, I cry laughing every time I watch it.  I actually just bought it yesterday.  I started watching a little bit of it, but I’m like I remember so much of this movie, but I’m so excited to watch it in full later.  It really is still things that still happen, no matter how much you want to think things have changed.  Yes, many things have changed.  But there’s still not equal pay for women, there’s still sexual harassment in the workplace, there’s still…

VA: General sexism in the workplace.

KJ: Yeah.  Yeah.  And they just handled it with kind of, grace.  He was such a dick, their boss.  They just took care of everything.  I love it.  I love…Lily Tomlin in this movie is…

BL: She’s great.

KJ: Primo, so.  Anyhow. 

VA: And then, they turned it into a musical, right?

KJ: Yeah, and what’s her name was in it? 

BL: Crap, I’m seeing it too.

KJ: She was in I, Tonya.  She played the mother.

BL: Allison Janney.

KJ: Yes.  Yes. Yes.

VA: [excitedly] Allison Janney was in it?

KJ: Yeah.

VA: I love Allison Janney.

BL: I love her.  We could do a episode on her too.  Oh man, don’t get excited Mom.  My mom is so excited right now listening.  [laughter] [imitating her mom] I love Allison Janney, Bridget!

VA: I just looked it up.  Stephanie J. Block and Megan Hilty were in it too.

BL: That’s who I was going to say.  Megan Hilty.  That’s the one I could see in it.

KJ: It’s the 20th…write this fact down…it’s the 20th highest grossing comedy film of all time.

BL: Yay!

VA: That’s amazing.

KJ: Yeah.  Sexist, egotistical, lying, hypocritical, bigot. [laughter]  What a fuckin mash of words.

VA: I love it.

BL: Yeah, Allison Janney played Lily Tomlin’s character.

VA: That’s perfect.  And it looks like it got four Tony nominations, the musical.

KJ: Alright.

VA: Nice.  Because yeah, Dolly Parton was super involved in that also. 

KJ: Oh, and this was Jane Fonda’s production company too, this film.

VA: Oh my gosh!

KJ: And Dolly Parton was nominated for an Academy Award, the song, and it won two Grammys.  I mean that song is so catchy.  The lyrics.  How do you write lyrics for a movie like this?  She did it.  Because she’s Dolly Fucking Parton.  She’s composed over 3,000 songs.  Why are we not talking about Dolly Parton more?

BL: Save it!  Save it!  [laughter]

KJ: All these women.  Jane Fonda.  Just…[sigh] I love Jane Fonda.  I’m looking at my Barbarella poster right now.  [laughter] The first thing I hang every time I move.

BL: No that’s how I feel when I watch Grace and Frankie.  I’m like they’re still so funny.  And it doesn’t feel like oh, I’m watching two old ladies.  They’re hilarious.

KJ: I saw Jane Fonda do a Q&A maybe about seven years ago.  The moderator…it was an hour panel, whatever.  It was not a panel, it was just her and this moderator.  It was 60 minutes, he asked one question, and she just like…she didn’t need any more prompting.  She had a story, she remembered everything.  She’s gorgeous, funny, smart.  Just really quite humble actually.  And has had three separate careers.  She’s had a movie career.  She’s the reason for every YouTube workout video ever.  That was a whole thing.  Then she came back and…television.

BL: They are just some broads I want to hang out with. [laughter]

KJ: Yeah.  Especially if you’ve got a marijuana cigarette and some alcohol.

VA: A marijuana cigarette. [laughter] I looked up this while you were talking, 9 to 5, just so I could get a visual of those three back in the 80’s.  And the outfits are…

BL: Oh yeah.

VA: A plus.  [laughter]  I’m obsessed.  They’re great.  I’m really excited to watch this movie, probably as soon as we hang up. [laughter]

KJ: It’s such a joy. 

BL: It will hold up.

KJ: I don’t want to like, force you into this, or like just ask you about it every day.  But I want you to watch it Valerie.  It’s so fun. [laughter]  It brings a lot of joy to my life.  I mean gays loved the movie too.  [laughter] 

BL: Do we always have to qualify that on our topics?  [laughter] 

KJ: Why not. 

BL: It can’t hurt, I guess.

KJ: Did you find out what Dabney Coleman was in?

BL: He was in a couple shows that I remember being on in the 90’s, but they looked like they were one season shows.  Like Drexler’s Class…it was shows where I was like oh yeah, I remember that show being on in the 90’s, but it wasn’t huge.  I don’t know.  He was in War Games, the movie War Games and The Beverly Hillbillies, but um…

KJ: He owned the 80’s though.

BL: Oh, he was in Tootsie.  That’s what I remember.  Yes.  I just saw it.  I’m like that’s what I remember him in, Tootsie.

KJ: Yeah.  He was a dick in that as well.  And he had a little tight vest.  Oh man, he was such a dick.

BL: Him and his little mustache, yeah.

KJ: Yeah.  Did you see Tootsie, Valerie?

VA: Nope. 

KJ: That’s another classic that brings lots of joy to my life.

VA: But I’m looking at his IMDB and he’s the voice of the principal in the cartoon Recess that I watched as a child. [laughter]

BL: There you go.

KJ: All that said, I am done.  And I’m looking forward to whatever 9 to 5 reboot happens.  And I really hope Rashida Jones is attached to that.

BL: Me too.

VA: That would be amazing.

KJ: Thank you for listening.

BL: Sometimes when we speak of things they happen.  So maybe that will happen now that you’ve talked about 9 to 5 on this podcast.

KJ: Mhmm.

VA: Put it out in the universe.

BL: We’re here for it.  [laughter]

KJ: Topic. Complete.

VA: Alright, I guess it’s my turn.

KJ: That’s how it goes. [laughter]

VA: My topic is actually also, it’s sort of the end of your topic was about how Dolly Parton made it a musical.  Mine is Jagged Little Pill the musical.  An Alanis Morissette musical based on her album.

KJ: I can’t believe it.  Like I can’t believe that albums are being made into musicals.  This isn’t the first time, right?

VA: No.

KJ: Green Day, right?

VA: Yeah…so actually that’s perfect.  It’s one of the first things that I wanted to say is that technically this is categorized as what’s called a jukebox musical.  Which means it takes a bunch of existing songs and puts them into a musical instead of having it all be original songs.

KJ: Ooohhh, OK.

BL: We learn things on this podcast. [laughter]

VA: There’s a lot of different types of that.  Sometimes it’s like Jersey Boys which is the story of the group, and therefore they’re performing those songs within the musical.  But sometimes…and like Carole King Beautiful, that musical is about Carole King so it has her songs in it while it’s telling her story.  But then there’s like Mamma Mia!, which is a bunch of ABBA songs…ABBA (pronounced aw-ba) ABBA (pronounced ah-ba), whatever songs.  But they’re not about a musical group, they’re just a story that happens to weave in a bunch of their songs.

KJ: Right.

VA: So this is more like that.  This is a fictional story that happens to use a ton of Alanis Morissette songs.  I don’t actually tend to like the other kind.  I don’t always…I mean, it depends.  Certain musicals when it just feels like it’s a concert, I’m like I would just go to a concert…I don’t like this.  But I love Mamma Mia!.  I love weaving stories around existing songs.  I think that that’s such a cool way to like contextualize these songs that you’ve already loved and kind of add an extra element of fun to them.  And Jagged Little Pill…I loved Alanis Morissette when I was younger.  I was an angry, angsty, sad teen. [laughter] And Alanis is perfect for that.

BL: I was excited because I don’t know a lot of music, but I know Jagged Little Pill, and I was obsessed with it when I was a teenager too.  I’m super excited because I know this album really well.

VA: Yeah, and so…some facts about Jagged Little Pill the album that I looked up just so I sounded like I knew what I was talking about [laughter].  It was released in 1995, and it was nominated for nine Grammy awards.  It won five Grammy awards, including album of the year.  It remains one of the top selling records in history, selling over 33 million copies.

KJ: That’s insane.  That’s an insane amount.  OK, go on.

VA: Yeah, and the fact that still, all these years later it’s still one of the top selling records is pretty amazing.  And the musical does have a few songs that aren’t technically on the album Jagged Little Pill, like “Uninvited”, and “Thank You”, and “That I Would Be Good”.  And then also Alanis wrote two songs for the musical, which was great.  They’re seamless.  I almost thought that I just forgot a song somehow, even though I don’t think that’s possible.  But because they fit in so perfectly.  But the distance of time between me knowing that this musical existed and me seeing it was very short. [laughter]  Maybe I vaguely heard of it when it was starting to become a thing, but until it was real I put it out of my head I…I don’t know.  I don’t remember hearing much about it until I had some friends in Boston who saw it.

BL: I was gonna say, you saw it in Boston, but is it nationwide?  Are they touring or is it only in Boston right now?

VA: No.  Right now it’s just at the A.R.T. theater in Boston, but they also…so a lot of times Broadway shows will start in the smaller theaters in other parts of the country and then move to Broadway.

BL: Once they’ve proved that hey, this is like a good show.

VA: Yeah, if they do well.  If it seems like something that people would be interested in.  I’m pretty sure Waitress the musical, the Sara Bareilles musical, started in Boston at this A.R.T. theater and then moved into Broadway.  But sometimes they’ll start in like Chicago.  There’s a couple little hubs that they’ll test, I guess, musicals out in to see how they perform before deciding if they’re worth a Broadway run.  I would be shocked if this didn’t go to Broadway very soon though.  It’s a very, very good show.  So yeah, I had some friends that saw it.  Also, I didn’t realize what kind of production it was.  I kind of thought…I don’t know what I was expecting, honestly.  I really didn’t ask many questions.  Someone was like Jagged Little Pill Alanis Morissette musical, I was like sold.  When are we going.  I didn’t really question it much.  So I went, it was last weekend actually, from when we’re recording this.  It was one of the best musicals I’ve ever seen.  It was so good.  And it’s like, it’s hard…you bring your own shit to things, right?  So these songs were so important to me that I was like ready to potentially be like no, what are doing with these songs?  Stop it.  Stop forcing this weird story on my songs.  But it wasn’t like that at all.  Overall it’s about this family.  A mom, and a dad, a teenage daughter, a teenage son.  They all have their issues.  The marriage is kind of in trouble.  The mom has some issues.  The daughter is adopted and is struggling with being black in a white family and a white neighborhood.  Her mom kind of not knowing how to deal with that.  The son is dealing with like, being the perfect child.  I don’t want to…

BL: Spoil it.

VA: Yeah, I don’t want to tell too much about what each of their struggles is more specifically because I didn’t know anything going into it, and I think that’s a good way to go into it. But I will say it is queer, there are queer elements to it, which I was surprised about how queer it was, which was great.  There was gender and sexuality stuff.  Like you were saying Bridget, with The Bold Type, there are a lot of very topical things, but it didn’t feel like after school special-y.  It was just relevant, without trying to be?

BL: Not how Supergirl addressed guns in the last issue.  Or last episode. [laughter]

VA: It wasn’t like here’s a PSA.  It was like these are real things that are happening to real people, and I want to contextualize it for you and I want to show you a story about what that looks like in people’s day to day lives.  Which I thought they handled very well.  Everyone was so talented, like out of control.  Lauren Patten, Celia Gooding, and Kathryn Gallagher were the lead girls in it.  Lauren Patten was so good.  I won’t tell you which song it was, because I want people to be surprised.  But one song that she sang got a standing ovation in the middle of an act, which is very rare in theater.  Like, it was so good.  And then Celia Gooding is the daughter of LaChanze, who is a Tony award winning Broadway actress who has been around for a long time.  She was in The Color Purple and Once On This Island, and she’s actually up for a Tommy…a Tommy [laughter].  She’s up for a Tony for the Donna Summer musical that’s out right now.

KJ: What?

VA: Yeah.

KJ: Woah, woah, woah, woah, woah.  There’s a Donna Summer musical? [laughter]

VA: Yeah.  I believe it’s just called Summer, hold on. 

KJ: [gasps] [laughter]  Go on.  OK, go.

BL: And Kat! Now you live on the east coast and you can see these things.

KJ: I know!

VA: Yeah, so she’s up for a Tony for that, and the Tony awards are tomorrow night so we’ll find out very soon if she’ll win that.  But yeah, so obviously talent runs in that family, because Celia Gooding was also really amazing.  And then also Kathryn Gallagher is the daughter of Peter Gallagher, aka Sandy Cohen from The OC

BL: The big eyebrow man.

VA: Yeah yeah yeah.  But she was also super talented.  It was very funny.  It was overall very funny, but it was also profoundly sad sometimes.  It was a good combination.  Like I said, it was like reality.  Like how some things are just really upsetting but you find humor when you can.  It reminded me a lot of, I don’t know if either of you have heard of the musical Next to Normal?

BL: No.

KJ: No.

VA: It’s one of my favorites.  Alice Ripley was in it.  I’m showing my theater nerd side for sure.

BL: It’s OK.  Lean in.  Lean into it. [laughter]

VA: That was a really good show that was also kind of about a family and their issues and the struggles that they were going through, so it was similar.  I was saying that after we saw it, but I think one of the musical directors who worked on Next to Normal also worked on this, which was funny.  I don’t know, it was so good.  It’s so like…Jagged Little Pill was part of my life throughout my life.  It wasn’t just part of that teenage…so there was the teenage angst where I was alone with my discman and my headphones, lying dramatically across my bed.  Like no one understood me in the world except for Alanis Morissette.  There was all of that.  But then cut to years later and you’re in the car and “You Oughta Know” comes on the radio, and me and my friends would just like scream sing it.  Then there was the fun nostalgia attached to it because we didn’t have that super angst anymore.  And “Ironic” and these songs were just like, on every road trip playlist I ever made.  Or every 90’s playlist.  All of these songs are still part of my life, so to see them in such a new way was very cool.  And also the full spectrum of feelings, right?  I was alone and angsty as a teenager, but then here I was at 31 with some friends who I had just spent the day doing a Disney sing-a-long power hour with, and felt safe enough to…I was like, sobbing.  And I don’t cry in front of other people a lot.  I think that I cried so much in high school, when I got to college I was like OK this is not who I am.

KJ: Done.

VA: I’m going to start over and be the person who doesn’t cry in front of people.  Tried really hard to do that.  I just felt so safe with these particular friends, and was just weeping openly.  There’s a lot of personal stuff…it was cathartic.  The Me Too movement brought up a lot of shit and opened old wounds.  This was kind of healing them back up again, if that makes sense?  I don’t know.  It was very transformative, I believe is the word that Monica used, that I liked.  I kept calling it traumatic in a good way. [laughter]  People were looking at me like I was just a masochist.  It was, I don’t know.  It was just very real and all the queer stuff was really real.  I don’t know.  I felt like I identified with each of the characters at different points in the musical, even though they’re so vastly different, which was very cool.  I don’t know, now I just feel like I’m rambling about my feelings.

BL: No, that’s so cool!  I will say I had started listening…when you guys were all posting about Jagged Little Pill and I started playing it again.  I had kind of the same feeling I had when I hadn’t listened to Dixie Chicks in awhile.  Like you said, it was like that was such a big album for me when I was pre-teen or whatever, and I listened to it then.  And you think like, oh I totally know what this song “You Oughta Know” means, like I got this.  I’m like 13 years old, I know everything.  [laughter]  So then to listen to it now…which first of all I was shocked at how many lyrics I still remembered to all the songs on the album, not just that one.  Then to listen to all the songs again, like “Perfect” and all those ones again now being 35 is crazy how they all have a whole different meaning.  I just think anything that made you guys all feel as much as this thing made you guys all feel is just like so…that’s so cool.  I don’t know.  Those people should be so proud that they created something that brought about all these feelings in someone.  I think that’s all you want when you make a piece of art is to have people feel some way about it.  That’s really cool.

KJ: I think, the only thing that I can comment on this, is music is…it transcends everything.  I think there’s so much celebration because you can all sing it together.  You can kind of just stop and watch a television show or whatever.  And you can look at a piece of art, and you can read a poem or whatever.  But music, there’s something about it.  You could share it with other people, and even if you can’t sing you can sing together out loud like you’re saying.  Like you’re screaming lyrics.

BL: You can turn it up loud enough so you don’t have to hear yourself.  That’s what I do. [laughter]

KJ: And it just feels like a celebration even when the emotions it’s bringing out of you are very sad.  So maybe you’re just celebrating that you can feel sadness or whatever.

VA: Yeah, for sure.

KJ: I can’t believe…I’m gonna get a lot of heat for this, but I’ve never been an Alanis Morissette fan.  In fact there’s a slight little joke that I have about Alanis Morissette with one of my very good friends.  But what she’s done is made something that is still so relevant.  What did she do?  What was she able to…lightning in a bottle.  How was she able to do that?  Twelve songs, or however many songs are on that album, resonate with 30 million people apparently.

VA: When I was reading up about this, she was talking about how when they were talking about doing this and she went back and listened to the album which is something that she said she doesn’t really ever do, is listen to her own music.  But she said she listened to it and was surprised how relevant all of those topics and feelings and everything still were.  It wasn’t just like 100% nostalgia feelings, it was also current contextual feelings.  Which I think is the same for us as viewers of the musical.  It was not only bringing up all of the nostalgia feelings and angsty teenage feelings, but it was also kind of bringing up these modern day adult feelings. 

KJ: How crazy also that she is…the word angst is always attached to that album?  Always attached to that album. [laughter]  But yet, again, there’s this celebration so many eras later.  I can’t imagine how that must feel to try and come up with something beyond that after you’ve had that.  Do you know what I’m saying?  There’s a lot of pressure or whatever.

BL: Then I remember being so let down by the second album.  [laughter]  I bought that CD the first day, I was like yes!  Nooo.

KJ: She also played God, so. 

BL: Yes.  And she’s Canadian! So, yay!

KJ: Oh God, right.

VA: And it isn’t pure emotional torment the whole time either.  ”Hand In My Pocket” is such a joyful song.  It’s such a…and even “Ironic” is just funny.  I mean, it’s kind of sad.  And also the way they did it in the musical was very cute and called out that it’s technically not irony in the literal sense of the word.  Which is something that Alanis has been very funny about over the years.  I think on The James Corden Show a few years ago she did an updated version of “Ironic”/

KJ: /I saw that, yeah/

VA: /with modern day lyrics. Modern day things that would be ironic.  And one of the verses was like writing a song about irony and not actually saying anything ironic in it, or something like that.  So she has a good sense of humor about that. 

KJ: What’s her involvement in this, do you know?

VA: I mean she wrote the two new songs.

KJ: I just think there’s got to be such excitement too when they’re just like we have this idea, and then there’s no way you can’t just be like ca-ching! [laughter]  OK!

BL: And she’s only 44.  I’m thinking back when that came out.  She was really young when that came out to have that much talent.  Cause to me she seemed so much older than me because I was like 14.

KJ: Yeah, even just if she were six years older than you would be a big leap from 14 to 20 anyhow.

BL: Yeah, true.

KJ: 36 to 42, no difference.

VA: So she just involved in the music and lyrics of it, and just the general creation.  She was involved in just the process of transforming the music for an album into the music for a musical.  Also director Diane Paulus…Diablo Cody, who/

KJ: /Oh yeah.

BL: Oh man.

VA: Who was involved in it.  Glen Ballard helped with the music and lyrics too.

KJ: I know who that is.  I’m the music person, so I know who that is. [laughter]

BL: I actually know who he is.

VA: Yeah, so it was definitely a team effort for sure.

KJ: And clearly with those names attached, they were not looking for it to be just maybe a possibly hit.  They were hoping for it to be.  They put effort into making that work, because you have a lot of big names attached to that.

VA: And when they did the very first reading of it, Idina Menzel was the lead in it.  I mean she didn’t end up doing the actual show at the American Repertory Theater, but the fact that she was involved at all…they definitely were expecting it to be successful.  I mean I’m sure they also…I’m sure some people involved in it figured that it was just going to be a name draw.  But hopefully they are very pleased with the fact that it’s…cause I mean that’s why I saw it, right?  I saw it because it was an Alanis Morissette musical.  I wasn’t expecting to take so much, be so affected by it, and have it be so amazing.  So I think they’ve got a good thing going.  I would be very surprised if it didn’t make it to Broadway eventually.

KJ: Yeah.

VA: And then get Tony awards and all that jazz.  I really do hope that…I think that Celia Gooding and Laura Patten have been in other musicals, but I think that this is their biggest.  I think if they took it to Broadway and took them with them it would be a big deal for them.  I think they’re both so talented that it would be amazing if they took the whole cast with them.  I know sometimes they re-cast for Broadway.  I hope they keep as many of them as they can, who wants to go to New York.

KJ: I will always applaud music getting, whether it’s you know…we’re gonna make a movie based on this, or a play, whatever you want to do.  I’m the music person so…you know?  This is what we’re here for.  Feminist-y ladies. 

VA: Yeah, and it was super feminist-y.  The whole show.  It was, yeah.  Like I said, I definitely brought my own shit to it.  The fact that I was with these specific friends and had that specific day, and it was…

KJ: You were with some Earpers, which is kind of great right? 

VA: That’s true, I was.

KJ: Bringin it back.  Bringin it back full circle. [laughter]  Newsy notesy on the out.

BL: Kat loves her newsy notesy stuff. 

VA: I highly recommend it, if you can make your way to Boston to go see it. 

KJ: Or apparently in the very near future when it hits Broadway.

BL: And we all go to New York and see it on Broadway.

VA: I mean I’m obviously gonna see it again, so.  Let’s do it.

KJ: I’m really glad that we got to get this together and talk.  I really have missed you, and this feels a little bit more normal in my life.

VA: Good!

KJ: Just to like, talk with friends.  It’s weird, I’ve just had family and my dog and new co-workers.  It’s a very small office, so I’ve been really isolated and I haven’t felt like I’ve had much of a connection with my people.  And it’s also a little sad too because I left Los Angeles and I had a lot of friends there, so this means a lot.  Thank you for hangin out and all of us talking again, feels really good, so. 

VA: Yeah, I agree.  Feels very good.  Let’s do it again sometime!

BL: And we even kept it short.

KJ: We did.

VA: Relatively.

KJ: Short is ninety-something minutes, so yeah.

VA: Yeah!

BL: For us.

KJ: Alright, ladies.  So until next time, who is gonna take us out?  You know who it is, right?

BL: Annie!

VA: Yay!  Bye!

BL: Alright, thanks for listening.  Bye!

Annie: Follow us on social media.  We’re on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram @FemThrilljoys.  If you have any more thoughts on this episode or in general, you can email us at  And last, but not least, if you’re feeling extra generous, please rate and review us on iTunes.  Thanks!

[end podcast]