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Bridget Liszewski, Kat Jetson, and Valerie Anne take a break from smashing the patriarchy to chat about feminist-y things they love.

Episode 7 Purgatory or Bust Transcript

Jul 11, 2018

Join the Feminist Thrilljoys for our seventh episode, which is, as promised, a Very Special Episode. This episode is all about WYNONNA EARP! The show that bonded us, the characters that inspire us, and the fandom that fuels us.

These transcripts would not be possible without the volunteer efforts of our amazing listeners. Huge thanks once again to Liz for helping us out on this episode! Find her on twitter at @Earpnado.


Feminist Thrilljoys – Episode 7 – Purgatory or Bust


BL = Bridget Liszewski

KJ = Kat Jetson

VA = Valerie Anne

/ indicates that two or more people are talking at the same time

VA: Welcome to Feminist Thrilljoys, a podcast where three women take a break from smashing the patriarchy to chat about the feminist-y things they love.  I’m one of your hosts, Valerie Anne.

BL: I’m Bridget Liszewski.

KJ: And I’m Kat Jetson. 

BL: Episode seven/

VA: /We did it! [laughter]  Episode seven.

KJ: Welcome to all of us being on the east coast.

BL: Yay!

VA: Yay!

KJ: Same time zone.  It’s not like…I’m so tired of putting PST, EST in our emails when we try to set up these/

VA: /My time or your time?  Our time!

BL: All of our time.

KJ: Oh my God, that’s really cute.

BL: So we all feel closer.  The love is stronger this episode.

KJ: Yeah.  Bridget said when we started talking in the beginning that I sounded closer even, so.

BL: She does.  Listen to her.  Doesn’t she? [laughter]

KJ: Also I think the wi-fi here is much better.  We have not had any drop outs or anything, so I’m really excited about that.

BL: You just jinxed us.

KJ: Oh, well.

BL: I was gonna say we celebrated by BS’ing for like 45 minutes before this recording. [laughter]

KJ: That’s true, that’s true.

VA: And hey, this is episode seven, so maybe this is the time we get our technological shit together, who knows?  We had big promises for episode seven.

KJ: And we are going to deliver.  But first.  First everyone, newsy notesy.

VA: Newsy notesy!

BL: I love that it’s called that. 

KJ: Newsy notesy? Me too.

BL: The first thing I wanted to talk about was a show that I am completely obsessed with.  I think Valerie is obsessed with it now too.  It’s called Killing Eve, and it’s on BBC America.  But yes, I’m completely, completely obsessed.  While we’re recording it tonight I think the fifth episode, there’s eight episodes in the first season, the fifth one airs tonight.  If you have not watched it, you should totally go and check it out.  It stars Grey’s Anatomy’s Sandra Oh is back on TV in this role, but yes.  She’s so good. 

VA: She’s so good.

BL: Her face is doing all of the things that her face did on Grey’s Anatomy, so it’s great.  But she plays a bored spy, MI5 operative that starts tracking down a female assassin that’s killing people all over Europe.  So it’s kind of this cat and mouse game between them, and the girl that she’s tracking becomes obsessed with Sandra Oh’s character, Eve.  So it’s like they’re both obsessed with finding each other.  I don’t know, it’s delicious, and it’s fun.  It’s so good/

KJ: /I’m hungry now.

BL: You think it’s gonna be this like, spy show, but it has…it has like such a fun and playful tone to it.  It’s just really, really good.  And the girl that plays the assassin, her name is Jodie Comer and oh my God, she’s so good.  But I don’t know if Valerie wants to add on.

VA: Yeah, I loved Cristina Yang, but Sandra is doing such fun things with this character.  She’s so much looser and funnier.  She plays the intense moments really well.  It’s really fun for me to see this like, lighter side to her acting abilities.  I’m really liking that.  The whole thing is very sexy, and gory, and fun.  Smart.

BL: It’s shot all over Europe.  It’s beautiful directing and all this stuff.  It’s really cool.

VA: It’s very female-led. The whole point of the whole show is between two women and their lives.  It’s very centered around them, so that’s very cool.  Even Sandra Oh’s boss…

BL: Yes, Fiona Shaw.

VA: Yeah.  She’s great.

KJ: I love that you teed that up for Bridget, who knows everything. [laughter]

VA: Yeah.

KJ: Who is…

VA: Help me out.  I wasn’t sure if she technically is her boss?  I didn’t want to give too much away.

BL: Yeah.

VA: I found it after four episodes had aired, and I watched all four in a row the same day.  Because I was like yup, this is what I want in my life.  It has a very BBC America feel.  It has some Orphan Black tones to it in a fun way.  So, I really like it.

BL: I keep saying it’s like how Hannibal and Will Graham are totally obsessed with each other.  But it’s like Hannibal, but without all the gross cannibalism.  It’s actually really fun.  It has a really fun spin on it that Hannibal never had, so I like that.  I did love Hannibal.

VA: And it’s a good edition to what our friend Nic has dubbed Murder Lady Sundays. [laughter] It’s Killing Eve, and then it’s Westworld, and then it’s Into the Badlands.  So just a bunch of women kickin ass and taking names and lives. [laughter]

KJ: Name first. Life second.  Just so I’m sure. [laughter]

BL: Yes, and Into the Bandlands has started the third season.  I still want to maybe talk about that on here, but that also has…we’re recording this on Sunday, but it has a really good episode tonight.  So I hope people are watching that as well.

KJ: Bridget, people are commenting a lot on some of the shows you’ve talked about on social media, and saying that they’re watching them because of your suggestion/

BL: /I know, that’s like my favorite/

KJ: /or your finely tuned bullet point list, so it’s working.

BL: That’s my favorite thing is to get those tweets, and then two seconds later they’re like what else should I watch?  And I feel so much pressure.  One of these times I’m going to recommend to someone a total dud, and they’re going to be like Godddd. [laughter]

VA: You haven’t led us astray yet/

BL: /The pressure! [laughter]

KJ: But that’s great.  People who are on those shows are probably like, who’s this Bridget?  How do I get her to talk about us?

BL: And then they look at my Twitter feed, and it’s like all Lena Luthor, screaming about Lena Luthor.  And they’re like never mind, she’s not a professional at all.  What does she know.

KJ: But I don’t want a professional.  I want someone with heart.  You know?  You’re both, Bridget.

BL: Oh, thanks.

VA: And everyone on those shows knows who Bridget is, because she’s interviewed them all, and she hangs out on their sets.

BL: Yeah, Sandra Oh and I are cavorting around Europe together.  [laughter]

KJ: By episode ten/

VA: /Haven’t you interviewed half of the cast of Into the Badlands by now? 

BL: I did just request interviews for this season, and I think I just put like eight women.  It was like every single female character on the show.  I was like I’d like to talk to any of these, and it was eight women.  [laughter] 

KJ: They’re like we have a suggestion for one of the men on the…no.

VA: No.  Hard pass. [laughter]

BL: I do like the male lead of Into the Badlands very much, but.  I felt like when I wrote that email though, I was like this is why I love this show.  I literally just listed eight women, it was nuts.  [laughter]

KJ: The reason is, these names.

BL: So anyway, watch Killing Eve.  And Into the Badlands

KJ: Anything else?  Any other suggestions Bridget?

BL: Not right now.

KJ: OK.  [laughter]

VA: The next newsy notesy thing is…I just wanted to briefly mention that last night I went to the New York GLAAD awards ceremony.  I got to work as press for Autostraddle on the red carpet with Heather Hogan.  It was just a very cool, inspiring event.  Seeing a bunch of these celebrities, whether they’re out themselves, or play queer characthers, or are just really vocal allies.  Kind of being in a room talking about how if we work together we can make actionable change, and they were talking about the things…the money that GLAAD raises does for the community.  It was just kind of nice to be in a room where it was people acknowledging things really suck right now, and we’re all feeling it, but there is hope.  There are things that we can physically do to make things better.  It was just a very cool experience.

KJ: You need a room like that every once in awhile.

VA: Yeah.

KJ: To just remind you that they’re your people there, and you want better.  Because it’s really easy to get lost in…yeah of course, it’s easy to get lost in the shit that is the United States show, so.

VA: Yeah.  And especially with like, Facebook…if you’re still connected to maybe distant relatives that don’t have the same viewpoints as you.  Or if you grew up in a community that doesn’t really support you, you can see a lot of people fighting against everything you’re trying to say.  And just being aware of how many people don’t see the things the way you do or don’t care about the things that you do.  So to be in a room that big and of that many powerful people that do kind of feel the same way was very inspiring.

KJ: Yeah.  I was going to ask you.  I didn’t even know, when you said you were at the GLAAD awards, I was like oh, Los Angeles?  I guess they have…

VA: They do a ceremony in New York too.  It wasn’t like the full…they didn’t announce every category and give the award because that’s what happens at the LA one.  Samira Wiley was recognized with some award of excellence for being out and such a vocal…I think it was a visibility award maybe?  Excellence in visibility or something.  And she gave an amazing speech about how she feels lucky that she’s had support in her family, and that she is very happy that just loving her wife in a public way is enough to help inspire people to see a future that they could have.  Especially LGBT youth.  To have them be able to be like oh, I can imagine a future that looks like that now because I can see it on Instagram.

KJ: Oh, yeah.  Yeah.

VA: It’s easy for her because she loves her wife so much.  Also not easy, it’s not always safe for people to do.  She said she feels very lucky to be able to do that and…yeah.  Melissa Etheridge and Adam Lambert performed together.  That was fun.  So it was just like a little bit more of a…and they had a silent auction.  It wasn’t a full awards/

BL: /Celebration/

VA: /Yeah, it wasn’t a full awards show.  It was just kind of a mini yeah, celebration.

BL: Cool.

KJ: Very.

BL: I was following along on your Instagram stories.  It looked really cool.  The Adam Lambert and Melissa Etheridge, I was like…yeah.

VA: Yeah, Heather talked to Melissa Etheridge a little bit.  I was standing there taking pictures, cause that was my job, to take some photos.  I was like, this is Melissa Etheridge.  I’ve known who she was my whole life.

KJ: Right.

VA: We asked everybody…and Heather will post a write up about it on Autostraddle, and if it’s out when this goes up we’ll put it in the show notes.  We just asked everybody, when things are hard what inspires you? We asked everybody the same question, just to make it easier.  And people had some really, really cool answers to that.  So I’m excited to share that with everybody.

KJ: Woohoo!

VA: Also I got to hear Moana sing Moana.  [laughter]  She was just having a great time, and she sang a little bit from Moana on the red carpet, it was very life changing.  [laughter]  Anyways, speaking of life changing, let’s talk about what we’re here to talk about.

KJ: Can I say one more thing before? 

VA: Oh, of course.

KJ: Just the newsy notesy things.  I just wanted to bring up that Janelle Monáe, obviously it was last week, but she released her emotion picture, Dirty Computer/

VA: /She sure did.

KJ: Yeah.  And she is some kind of voice recently, and also some kind of gorgeous look all the time, but. [laughter]  I’m really enjoying.  Before this came out completely, she doled out a few videos.  I have just been loving them.  So empowering.  Little five foot Janelle Monáe being badass.  After my long road trip, and you know, there’s a lot going on.  I made time for that.  I guess it’s considered kind of like a long form video.  I’m not really certain what it would be.  I took time to watch that.  Visually so appealing, and I got a ticket to see her, and I’m going to see her with you Valerie!

VA: Yeah! 

KJ: So, the most amount of money I’ve ever spent on a music ticket.  A band or a musician.  And that’s saying a lot, because I’ve been to soooo many shows, and I’ve seen so many bands and so many musicians.

VA: Yeah, I was surprised that she’s at the theater in Madison Square Garden, which is the smaller venue within Madison Square Garden.  I thought for sure she would’ve been in the main stage MSG because…I mean I have a very biased view of the fandom because of who I’ve curated my Twitter to see, but everyone’s losing their minds about Janelle Monáe.

KJ: Right.

VA: So it should be interesting.

KJ: Yeah.  I can’t wait.  Some people do it just for the experience.  Smaller, intimate, and maybe that’s what she wanted.  She could’ve possibly filled a bigger space but didn’t want to.  And I’m all for that.  I’ll spend more money.  Which I need.  [laughter]

BL: It’s 2018 prices, Kat.

KJ: It still hurts. 

VA: The real question is, did you buy your concert tickets in a grocery store?

KJ: Nope.  On an app.  On my phone.

BL: I didn’t claim that you could do that in 2018. [laughter]  I was talking 1997. 

KJ: Also I want the both of you to know that before we were talking, before we hit record, we were talking about Taco Bell.  And this is not an endorsement for Taco Bell, they didn’t tell us to do this.  But I want Taco Bell so badly right now.  And I’m totally going to do that after we’re done. [laughter]

BL: You deserve it.  You deserve Taco Bell.  Treat yo self.

KJ: Thanks Bridget.  OK, that’s it.  I just really wanted to give some more love to Janelle Monáe, as one does. 

VA: I’m always here for more Janelle Monáe love.

KJ: Yeah.  Mor-náe. OK.  Stop me.  You know. More. Náe.  Whatever, whatever.  Please, cut that out.  [laughter]

BL: Oh my gosh.

KJ: It was too Dad jokey. [laughter]

BL: Now it’s staying in. [laughter]  So Kat has made big promises about this episode seven.  So, we were all kind of thinking, what could we talk about that would be special enough to warrant episode seven material.  And we decided that we didn’t want to each do a topic, and that we were going to instead talk about the topic that basically brought all three of us together, and how we met, and something that’s very prevalent all year round in our lives, I guess…is Wynonna Earp.

VA and BL: Yay!!

KJ: I cannot wait to see where this goes, two hours later [Valerie randomly singing/scatting in the background] 

BL: I was going to say everybody settle in.  Hit pause, go to the bathroom right now.

VA: Stay hydrated.

BL: Get your snacks.

KJ: Get your Taco Bell.  [laughter]

BL: Maybe you can Uber Eats some Taco Bell to you in the middle of this podcast recording.

KJ: Not where I live.  I’m in suburbia now, that’s not gonna happen. 

BL: So yeah, Wynonna Earp.  Where do we even start?

VA: I guess we should start by warning people, if you haven’t seen all of seasons one and two of Wynonna Earp, just go do that right now and then come back.  Because we’re gonna spoil everything that aired.

KJ: Literally. We’re talking about everything.  You could watch season one on Netflix, if you’re…everywhere.

BL: Season two will be there soon.

KJ: Yeah, I was wondering when that was coming.

VA: Or you can buy it on iTunes or Amazon.

KJ: Yeah, that’s what I’ve done.

VA: Mhmm, me too.

BL: And I guess like, if people don’t know what Wynonna Earp is…it is a show/


BL: I know!  Just go google it.  [laughter] 

VA: No, I want to hear your summary of Wynonna Earp.

BL: I guess, just like the real quick version is that Wyatt Earp’s great great granddaughter is now in charge of sending demons that are here because of the curse on Wyatt Earp back to hell.  That’s it, right?

KJ: Yeah, how many were there, you remember?

VA and BL: Seventy-seven.

KJ: OK.  Cause the math, right? Oh, you did math. [laughter]

VA: Yeah, so seventy-seven people that were taken down by Wyatt Earp’s gun were resurrected as demons called revenants.  And only Peacemaker, Wyatt Earp’s gun, can take them down.  And only Wyatt Earp’s descendants, specifically the Earp heir.  Which is like, activated when they turn 27, can use the gun to take them down.

KJ: And Peacemaker is quite a gun.  That’s its own podcast.  Or if you want to explain it the way I do, because people have a short attention span…I’m like, it’s like a western Buffy

BL: Yes.

VA: Yeah.  Literally.

KJ: There you go.

VA: Buffy, but a sci-fi western.

KJ: Mhmm.  Oh yeah.

VA: Gotta love it.  Which is, I mean, how I knew I would like it from the very beginning.

KJ: Same.

BL: Well Emily Andras, the showrunner and our goddess that we pray to/

KJ: /Love, love, love

BL: Saint Andras.  She said she always pitched it as Frozen meets Buffy[laughter]

VA: Ooooh.

KJ: I never heard that. 

BL: Yeah.  So that’s pretty accurate.

VA: I mean, yeah.  That feels very right.

KJ: Oh, Emily.  I just actually held my heart a little bit/

VA: /I know/

KJ: /When you just said Emily Andras, honestly.

VA: I instinctively looked to my Emily Andras prayer candle when you said our goddess that we pray to.

KJ: Which you literally probably do.

VA: I mean I literally do have a prayer candle with her face on it, yes.  That we made as a joke one time, but it’s beautiful.  So it has a place of honor on my dresser.

KJ: How many are there of those?  I saw a couple of those.

VA: I think that Nic and Taylor both made eight.  So I think there are sixteen of them floating around there somewhere.

BL: They have offered to make more if people want them. 

KJ: I mean, yeah.  I…yes.  I’ll have to get in touch with Nic for that.

BL: But, yeah so…it’s aired two seasons, and it’s going to be coming back in the summer sometime.  We don’t know.  For season three.

VA: On the channel SYFY.

BL: Yes, and Space channel in Canada.

VA: Alright, now that we got all of the official business out of the way.  The first question on Bridget’s outline is…how did we come to find Wynonna Earp.  Bridget probably found it first.

BL: I did find it first.  Well…  [laughter]

KJ: [imitating Bridget] I did find it first.

BL: I found it first.  Everybody else…

VA: [imitating Bridget] I was in the room when they pitched it.  [laughter]

KJ: [imitating Bridget] They came to me with their ideas.

BL: No, I think people have probably heard this if they’ve heard other panels I’ve been on, but…because I cover a lot of Canadian TV and all of the awesome women that are making it, we covered a lot of Lost Girl.  Emily Andras, her episodes, I always found to be my favorite episodes of the series.  I was always like she’s a really good writer, I really like her.  And so I started just following Emily on Twitter, she was so funny.  She seemed to be super engaged with the Lost Girl fans.  I don’t know, I just thought she was like a super cool person.  And then Michelle Lovretta had a show called Killjoys, which everyone should also be watching that.  I’ll be talking about that at some point on this podcast.  Emily wrote on the first season of that as well. Again, I was like her episodes are my favorite ones.  Then she started tweeting that she was going to be part of this show called Wynonna Earp, so I had it on my radar from the moment she started tweeting about it, and it seemed like something I’d be super into.  And then when it came time that the show was actually premiering, I knew at The TV Junkies that we were going to want to cover it as much as possible because it’s like everything that we love.  Super feministy show, and then it had a ton of women, they had a female showrunner, and it had a ton of women writers, and all the stuff that we love in the shows that we cover.  I said at the time…I think I had just interviewed Emily for my women behind Canadian TV series.  And I was like, hey, this was a lot of fun, this interview.  Would you want to do this every week and talk about Wynonna Earp, and we could like break down the episode and what happens next week.  I didn’t know if she would say yes, and then I also hadn’t seen the show.  So I was kind of like I hope we actually like the show, or I’m gonna be stuck talking to her about this show that I don’t really like for like thirteen weeks.

KJ: Stuck talking to Emily Andras. [laughter]

BL: Not stuck talking to her really, more just about a show that maybe I’m not super into.  But I was like, I feel good about this show, I think I’m gonna do it.  And she was like yes, totally, let’s do it.  There are so many shows out there.  The bigger outlets and stuff never pay attention to these little genre shows, so I think she was probably just glad that someone was interested in it.  So she said yes to me.  So, since the first season, I’ve been doing those weekly interviews with Emily.  And then she’s also gotten me great access to the cast, so I do a lot of interviews now with the cast as well.  But that’s my rambling story of how I came to the show.  I did get the first two screeners about a month before Wynonna premiered, and I watched them and I was like [dramatically] I’m so into this show.  So any fears like I had about having to talk to her about something that I might not like were out the window after half of the first episode. 

KJ: Bridget, I’m curious, seeing as you saw it before it even aired or anything…were you immediately…did it immediately feel like Buffy to you?

BL: Um, yeah.  It did feel a lot like that.  I mean, it had like the same jokes.  The end of the second episode you barely meet Bobo.  But I’ve always felt that Bobo was very…like I loved the mayor.  I thought the mayor was my favorite Buffy villain.  And Bobo just had that big personality, where he seemed to be having a lot of fun.  I don’t know, that was reminiscent to me of him.  I feel like I loved the sister stuff in Wynonna right away.  Which I don’t know that Buffy had obviously right away. 

KJ: Mhmm. Yeah.  [laughter]

BL: It reminded me too of Buffy because in those first two episodes some of the special effects are really, really bad.

KJ: Exactly.  Yes.

BL: Yeah, so that for sure got me.

KJ: Which is amazing, because the cheesiness is what I cringed, but also loved.  And when I look back at Buffy, I’m like oh God this sweet darling show with horrible you know, effects and whatnot. 

BL: Now that’s what makes it endearing.

KJ: Yeah.  Yeah, yeah.

VA: And that’s the thing about if a show is good enough, you don’t care that you can see the zipper on the back of the werewolf suit.  You’re just…you love it anyways.  That’s not why you’re watching.  Maybe you’re watching Game of Thrones for the dragon effects.  But you’re watching Wynonna Earp for the heart of it.  The story.

BL: I definitely had people say after the first couple Wynonna episodes where it is a lot rougher [laughter] and they were like oh my God.  But I was like, I don’t even notice that.  I was like I don’t even care.  I was like who cares?  So there’s some weird fire thing and the guy goes down to hell, who cares?

KJ: That’s the stuff that people make you feel bad about.  Guilty about watching a cheesy television show cause you’re not watching, like Valerie said, the one million dollar dragon.  So, I’m fine without that.  Also Game of Thrones is too rapey for me, so I’m happy seeing Wynonna Earp, thanks. [laughter]

BL: You can keep your rapey dragons. [laughter] 

KJ: I would literally only…I hate watched that show for a couple of seasons.  I was just like I’m here for when Arya Stark just becomes…just murders everyone.  But then I couldn’t even deal with that.  I was like I can’t, I’m out.  But, anyhow.  Valerie, how did you come to find it?

VA: OK.  Let’s see.  Once upon a time [laughter]…so I remember seeing the promos on SYFY before it aired.  Like a month before it aired.  By the time the promo was over I was like, well this is definitely a show I’ll try because it was this female-led kind of sci-fi-y thing, and I’m here for that.  Actually, I remember Rebecca Barrick tweeted at me and was like…it was before it aired still, she was like are you going to recap Wynonna Earp - for a website I was writing for at the time.  And I was like I know I’m gonna watch it because of the promos, but why would I recap it? Is it gonna be queer?  And she was like yes! She linked me to a tweet that Emily had tweeted that promised it was going to be gay, and I was like I’ll keep an eye on it, maybe I will.  Actually I remember the night it aired, I hadn’t realized that it was the premiere night.  JP on Twitter, who is someone I had talked to for years was like hey are you watching Wynonna Earp live tonight?  And I was like oh, thanks for reminding me.  I turned it on, and within…the second Wynonna Earp stepped off the bus to save a girl she just met, I was like sold.  This show has my whole heart.  I’m in. [laughter]  Wynonna was like everything I loved about Buffy and about Faith rolled into one person, because she was like inherently good, but she was externally tough, but she was soft and squishy on the inside…but she had this destiny she had…I guess she’s more like Faith than Buffy, honestly.  Just with like more…no yeah, she’s the combination.  She has the support system that Buffy had that made her a good leader, but the kind of/

KJ: /fuck-up-ness of Faith/

VA: /Yeah.  The feeling like she was broken and didn’t deserve that support system the way that Faith did.  Yeah, it was just like ugh, God, I was so into it.  And so I did…I don’t even think the episode was done airing when I emailed my editor at the time and was like as soon as this gets gay I’m recapping it, k? Great, thanks. [laughter]

BL: I can’t believe.  I actually did that live tweet.  I never do live tweets.  I remember we were all on there from the first time.  That was before I knew you.  I thought the same thing, this is a Friday night at 10.  I just like was home, and I was like I think this cast seems really fun.  I’m just gonna try live tweeting.  I never live tweet.  Then I did it, and they were so engaged from that first episode, and it was so fun.  I was like OK, I’m gonna come back next week and do this again.  I also remember too that they premiered on April 1st, which is the funniest thing ever.  It was so fitting for stuff…like when the show says this is such a shit show, but it’s our shit show.  Yeah, you guys literally premiered on April Fools Day. [laughter]

VA: At 10 pm on a Friday.  It was great.  So I did recap the show.

BL: It got gay the next week!

VA: It got gay real fast.  So I recapped it, and this is kind of jumping ahead a little bit..

BL: Noooo, follow the outline!  Just kidding.

VA: So usually when I recapped a show, I create a hashtag just for our little queer pocket of the internet.  Like anyone who’s reading the recaps to tweet because the main show hashtags are usually just…there’s so many people and not all of them care about the queer stuff like we do.  So it’s just easier to find each other if we had our own hashtag.  We did start one, it was #Haughtdamn.  We used it for I wanna say four or five weeks, and then eventually realized we didn’t need to because the whole…the cast, everyone in that main hashtag, the #WynonnaEarp hashtag was just as excited about Wayhaught as we were.  We didn’t need that safe space because the whole thing was a safe space.  Which was very different and new.  I had been writing about TV for years and had never experienced anything like it.  So that was very cool.  Then the website that I wrote for then decided to not keep its freelance writers, so I panicked. Because it was between seasons one and two of Wynonna Earp, and one of the first things that now my editor Heather at Autostraddle said was do you wanna come do Wynonna Earp and Orphan Black recaps for us?  I was like yeah.  The both of them wouldn’t air – this was like October – both of them wouldn’t air until June, like the next summer, but I was like [pleading] please I need a place to write about Wynonna Earp.  By then people knew how important it was to me that they wanted to make sure I had a place to write about it in half a year.  So that was very cool.  I was just so in it as soon as I saw it.  It was so good.

KJ: I didn’t know how you came about it, so this is new for me.  So yay!

VA: I came about it very naturally.  [laughter]

BL: She heard it was gonna be gay, and she was in. [laughter]

VA: I dove into the deep end.  It was before Waverly even came on screen, before I knew what was going to be gay.  I forgot that it was gonna be gay because of how into it I was.  I was already so sold, which is also not the most common thing on TV these days, to love something before it gets gay…for me. [laughter]

BL: Yeah, we got Kat laughing.

KJ: [still laughing] I loved you before you were gay. [laughter]

VA: But do you know what I mean?  I feel like I watch so many shows because someone told me it got gay, not because…no one’s trying to sell me on things just for the story anymore because there’s so much out there, so it was really nice.  It was nice to love a story organically and get bonus gay, you know?  [laughter]  Alright, I’m gonna stop talking.  Kat, it’s your turn.

KJ: That’s beautiful.  For me, I never come to anything right from the beginning except for X-Files, that was the only thing in my life that I’ve ever come to episode one.  So for me, I did not get to it until season two.  A friend of mine just kept talking about it.  I wasn’t really following or engaging much on Twitter.  It was still in the midst of post-election blues, so it just felt like an angry place.  A friend of mine kept posting about Wynonna Earp…usually posting a picture of Melanie Scrofano’s character Wynonna giving the finger or pointing Peacemaker.  So it was in my head, I just had not gotten to it.  Then, I followed this woman, her name is Dorothy Snarker.  She does recaps as well, obviously she’s snarky.  She always makes me laugh.  The only thing she posted was a photo of Nicole and Waverly, I think it was that second episode of season two.  All she wrote was consent is sexy.  I think it was a gif or something.  I was like wo-wo-wo-wo-woah.  This is on that show Wynonna Earp with the girl and the gun and giving the finger?  I just made a point that weekend…I knew it was on Netflix so I started watching it.  I watched three episodes I remember in a coffee shop all at once.  I was not leaving this coffee shop.  I was there forever.  I don’t even drink coffee. [laughter]  I remember I had earbuds in and I was laughing.  The guy knew me because I go in there every weekend for a bagel, and he’s like what’s going on?  It was cute, we talked about it a little bit.  But I was hooked.  Clearly hooked enough where I felt the same as you Valerie, where I’m like please I need to write about this show.  Historically I’ve written about music.  Literally have not written anything about television.  I needed an outlet, and I found one, and got to write about it for Hollywood Reporter.  So that was great.  My first angle was how it’s like Buffy, so, yeah.

VA: I mean, the music on the show is amazing.

KJ: The music.  [singing] Andrea Higgins!

BL: The music.  That hit me right from the first episode too.

VA: Oh yeah.

KJ: The songs I’ve downloaded because Andrea Higgins has put in Wynonna Earp is just…it’s wild.

BL: I felt like right from the beginning, I knew…I wrote an article, it was like 11 things you need to know about Wynonna Earp.  I feel like I look back on that now, and it’s still everything that applies to the show.  It was so there right from those very first two episodes.  One was the music, the sister feelings, being in Calgary…all this stuff.  It just knew, I think, what it was so well right from the start.  But that music, yes.

VA: I’ve gotten to the point now where I can recognize Andrea Higgins’ work on other shows.

KJ: That’s amazing.

VA: I’m like this sounds like an Andrea song, and then I look it up and it’s always her.  It’s great.  She’s so good.

BL: She also does all of the Canadian shows almost.

VA: Well, that helps too usually.  Is it a Canadian show?  Yes, OK.  But she has such a good ear for the emotion of music and pairs it so very well with the scenes.  [silly voice] I love it.

KJ: That is really well put.

VA: Oh, thanks,

KJ: I mean that.

BL: The [making fun of Valerie voice] I love it part? [laughter]

KJ: So I came into it late.  A season late.  And I dove in real hard. 

BL: You’re proof it doesn’t matter when you come in.

KJ: Yeah/

BL: /As long as you’re here now.

VA: Did you eventually catch up to watch live?

KJ: I did.  For sure.

VA: I didn’t meet you until after season two aired.  I wasn’t sure.

KJ: Yes, I started…I got to like episode five or something like that, was when I started watching live.

VA: Nice.

BL: The big one.

KJ: And because I was writing about it, I got them a little bit before.  I would get, I don’t know how many…sometimes one episode, sometimes three.  But I remember I didn’t have anyone to talk to.

BL: Now you have us. 

KJ: Still, Bridget doesn’t watch them.

BL: I watch them! I watch them!

VA: Oh, you’d watch all three when they dropped at the same time?

KJ: Yes.

VA: Oh no/

BL: /Our friend Christina does that, and I’ll be like no, you can’t do that.  You have to savor them.

VA: I also…I don’t trust myself not to accidentally spoil things, so I don’t watch the next one until I finish my recap and the live tweet.  I don’t trust myself to be able to separate out what happened in which episode.  I would watch the upcoming episode, and wait until that episode aired before I’d watch the next one.

KJ: No, I’m crazy.  I watch them. 

BL: I do the same thing though.  I don’t want to ask Emily questions where I know what happens two episodes down.  I want to make sure I ask my questions not knowing yet what’s next.

VA: Yeah.

KJ: Mhmm.

BL: Kat’s like that’s great for you suckers, I don’t have to.  Three episodes, give me it! [laughter]

KJ: You wanna know what the thing is I could not wait for someone to see or talk…the thing I couldn’t wait to talk to people about wasn’t even a thing that was said.  It was just a look, and it was the drunk Nicole episode.  It was just when Nicole walked up to Wynonna and she just smiled at her, and there was the dimple.  The biggest Nicole/Kat Barrell dimple in the whole entire universe.  I was like [desperate dimple pleading] Please, let me talk to someone about this dimple right now!

VA: I know exactly what you’re talking about.  She’s like looking up at her on the porch.

KJ: Yes!  It is the cutest, hottest thing ever.

VA: That whole episode was so…the scenes with Wynonna and Nicole in the bar were just some of the best comedic moments of the whole show.  That’s funny, I’m trying to think if there were things that I was dying for people to see.

BL: So for season three Kat, are you covering it weekly, or do you know how you’re going to be covering it?  Can you say?

KJ: I don’t think I’m going to do it weekly.  I don’t think that’s how the coverage is really gonna work.  I’m gonna do it more like have some sort of angle or something.  I’m gonna do it when it comes back, and then you know, something epic happens.  Which could be any episode or or many episodes.  Just some angle that’s of interest.

BL: When you have something to say.

KJ: Yeah, other than just fawning over it.  Which is something I want to do, and I’ll do that on Twitter. But when it comes to Hollywood Reporter there’s gotta be a level of something that, you know.  Yeah.

BL: I try to do that too.  I leave the recapping for Valerie because she’s the best at that, so I don’t want to try to do that.  But I usually try to talk to a cast member, because they’re so nice to me and give me access.  If there’s an episode that I feel like…I feel like those are the best pieces when I have all my feelings brimming and just need to get it out.  It’s probably what I’ll try to do.

VA: I do love when you go on a feels-fest.  [laughter]

BL: It seems to happen a lot with Wynonna.

KJ: I also think it’s a good opportunity, at least for my portion, to just do something super in-depth.  I’m not saying there’s not heart in all the things that you write, you are like a writing machine/

BL: /Surrre Kat/

KJ: /But me personally, the way I write, I’m not a write every week person.  I’m more of a I’ve got something really specific in mind and I want to dissect and discuss it.  So that’s what I’ll do.  I’m just happy I get to cover it again this year, so.

BL: That’s awesome.  Hollywood Reporter is like, huge for the show.  So that’s so cool.

VA: I don’t know 100% if I’m doing full recaps.  I assume so because that’s what I did last year.  I hope so because I do enjoy it.  Even though sometimes it does feel like it’s just a thousand words of me being excited.  But I do like having that space to kind of break down every episode.  I think that format works for Autostraddle.

BL: I like what you do with the recaps though, where you are recapping what happened but it’s not just like a straight account.  It’s always how you feel about this or what you think is gonna happen because of that.

VA: Right.  So we’re doing the re-watch, the #revwatch, and I went back and read one of my old recaps.  I had this whole conspiracy theory and I broke it all down.  It was like a paragraph of theory, and it was all wrong.  Now knowing what happened, it was so far off.  I love that.  I love not being able to predict story.  It was just really funny to read.  It was like, wow.

BL: I’ve been noticing that with season two how crazy it is.  These first episodes where we thought all this stuff with the goo was gonna be the big story for that season.  By the end it was nothing, it was like just kidding. 

KJ: How much do you just want…I love the goo and Waverly, but man…Wynonna only one episode?  Gimme so many episodes of Goononna.  Please.  [laughter] She’s so good.  She turns it on so well.  Waverly fighting it, you still got sweet Waverly, but full-bore Wynonna was just like woo!  This is neat. [laughter]

BL: Melanie, she looked like she was having so much fun.  I was always like oh, it was the student – it went from the student – Dom was so good as Gooverly, but it went from the student to the master.  Not to say anything against Dom because Dom was great.

KJ: Oh, absolutely.  Yeah, that was hard to play too.  Walking that line, you know?  You kinda just wanna go crazy, but you have to dial it back.  You’re like I don’t want to, but she had those tiny little shining moments where she got to just…OK, I can’t do it anymore, I just gotta go full-bore. 

VA: Dom was really good at…you could, even if her eyes hadn’t gone black, you could see the difference between Waverly and Gooverly.  Her physicality and her voice, she did a very good job of switching back and forth.  But you’re right, she did fight it most of the time.  Whereas it was fun to see Wynonna go full goo.

KJ: She likes trucks.  Is that he said?  What did Doc say?

VA: Yeah. 

KJ: She likes the trucks.  [laughter]  [imitates fire truck sounds]

BL: So maybe that’s a good point for us to talk about Melanie Scrofano, I guess in general.

VA: My first question is, is it Scrof-AH-no or Scro-FAN-o?

BL: I don’t know. I always say Scrof-AH-no.

VA: I always did too, but then her like…that one shirt that they sell it says ScroFAN…o.  Or something.

BL: Maybe they’re just putting it like that just to say FAN.

KJ: Yeah.

VA: OK.  And is it ANDras or AH-ndras?

BL: It’s ANDras, I think.

KJ: Oh, I say AH-ndras.  I think because I say aunt [pronounced AH-nt] all of the time. 

BL: You’re sophisticated.

VA: So the answer is we don’t know for sure either way.

BL: I think it’s ANDras.  It’s ANDras.  You can keep saying AH-ndras. [laughter]

VA: Because of Fandras, I started saying ANDras, but I wasn’t sure if was Scro-FAN-o or Scrof-AH-no.  I had always said Scrof-AH-no, and then I heard someone else say Scro-FAN-o, and I just get nervous.  I don’t want to mispronounce people’s names.

BL: Emily is gonna be like actually it’s Andreas. [laughter]

VA: I should do what I had to do for Katie McGrath [pronounced McGraw] and just YouTube them saying their own names. 

KJ: Oh, yeah.  Or…what was it?  Charlize Theron.  They used to call her Ther-on in the beginning and then she’s like actually – it was like four years later, and she can do whatever she wants, I don’t care what she wants to do, but like four years later – she was like it’s Ther-ahn, and I was just like OK!

VA: I always thought it was Ther-own.  But that was also wrong.  I’m just bad at pronouncing names, turns out.  I learned most of the words I know from reading, so I pronounce almost everything wrong.

KJ: When it comes to names, how can you really know unless you hear someone say it.

VA: So anyways, Melanie.

BL: And Lea Michele is her middle name. [laughter]  Never forget.

VA: Chyler Leigh too, I realized.  Chyler Leigh, her last name is now West because she’s married, but…

KJ: Woah woah woah woah woah.

VA: Leigh is not her last name. 

KJ: Oh, stoppppp.

VA: We got another one.

BL: It will never end, Kat.  It’s never ending.

KJ: No, I’m serious.  I’m serious.  That’s not her last name?

VA: No.

KJ: Oh, stoppppp.  This is wild.  I don’t even know that girl other than from you people.  [laughter]

BL: [imitating Kat] I don’t even know that girl other than from you people.

KJ: I realize now how awful that sounds. [laughter]

VA: No, she was born Chyler Leigh Potts.

BL: Oh, that’s an awful last name.

VA: And now she’s technically Chyler Leigh West, but she just goes by Chyler Leigh.  Like I just go by Valerie Anne.  I’m just saying there’s a bunch of cool people in this club. [laughter]

KJ: It’s like Madonna but better because you have two names.

VA: Yeah.  Madonna but better.  That’s the name of our club. [laughter]

BL: Do you have t-shirts?  You should get t-shirts.

KJ: Madonna but better. 

BL: At the next ClexaCon Valerie’s gonna give Chyler Leigh this shirt.

VA: She’s gonna be like I don’t understand, you weirdo.

KJ: Who is the most popular single named person right now?  I mean Madonna is not it.  Sorry, Madonna.  But her time has passed.

VA: Beyoncé?

BL: Yeah, Beyoncé. 

KJ: There ya go, Beyoncé.

VA: I can’t say like Beyoncé but better, I’d get murdered. [laughter]

KJ: You absolutely would.  You absolutely would.

VA: It has to be Madonna but better.  Arguably possibly Cher, but I think that’s also risky. 

KJ: You’re right.  The gay men would/

VA: /Yeah, I think Madonna but better is the safest bet.

KJ: Right, because even gay men are over her. [laughter] Oh, poor Madonna.  I feel awful right now.  You know the best thing about Madonna – I love Madonna – the best thing about her, she got rid of or like fixed it, was the space between her teeth.  That was the best.  I loved that gap.  It was awesome.

VA: Yeah.  It was a good gap.

KJ: So Wynonna Earp.

BL: What were you people talking about? [laughter]  Melanie.

VA: Melanie is the most talented actress of her generation.

KJ: And I really wanted her to be Tomb Raider.

BL: Oh.

VA: Oooooo.  That would’ve been awesome.

KJ: So good.

BL: I feel like you just have a lot of disappointment in Tomb Raider, but that might be another topic. [laughter]

KJ: The people who need to know know.  The people I was in the movie theater with, I didn’t shut up about it.

VA: Can I tell you something I loved about Melanie’s Wynonna in the early days?

KJ: Yes!

VA: I told you, I was with her the second she left that bus.  But one thing that surprised me in a good way about the character of Wynonna was in one of the earlier episodes, she was at her father’s grave and crying and grumpy that someone interrupted her crying.  But she wasn’t ashamed or trying to fight it.  She was just being sad, and being OK with being sad because this horrible thing had happened to her.  I feel like so many times this tough kind of character would be like [pretending to be this tough kind of character] oh, I don’t cry.  My tear ducts are dried up.  She’s always very emotional, and I think that that’s…but it never takes away from her badassery, because it’s not something that should.  So, I really like that.  And I think that Melanie plays that just with her eyes, so well.

BL: Her face, her face is like [makes that noise you make when thinking about how good Melanie’s face is].

VA: It’s a good face.

BL: I swear they must just put in the script like, Melanie do magic with your face here.  And she does it. [laughter] Cause it’s so good.

VA: Or it’s like three paragraphs, but that’s all only on Melanie’s face.

BL: Yeah, don’t actually speak these words, but all this.

VA: She manages to nail it every time.

KJ: Do you think that’s your favorite Melanie moment? 

BL: God, we’re having to pick our favorite Wynonna moment?

KJ: I don’t mean Wynonna Earp, I mean Wynonna the character, yes. 

BL: I know.  I know, but that’s still daunting.  And you’re just springing it.

KJ: Do it.  It’s not on your list Bridget.  And Valerie, that doesn’t have to be yours.  I have one that’s so…I have one.

BL: You go.

KJ: My favorite.  It’s my favorite thing of Wynonna Earp for two seasons, and it’s not even an emotional moment, it’s just the delivery is so great.  It’s in season two with – I think it might be the third episode of season two – with the hockey trophy.  She’s running into the sheriff’s station, and she had dealt with so much shit that day.  The guy who liked her in high school, I can’t remember his name.  Do you remember?

BL: Perry.

KJ: Perry!

VA: I loved Perry!

KJ: And she was dealing with so much, running around, carrying this stuff, dealing with weirdness from Waverly…she runs in there and Doc’s like, he says something about Perry.  He’s like you sure can pick em.  She’s running and she’s like shut uppp.  [laughter]  Literally, she didn’t even get like, that was most mad she could get while running and still doing stuff.  Was shut uppp.  There’s gonna be a season three, and I’m still certain that that’s going to be my favorite moment ever.  It’s my favorite Melanie moment, and it’s also my favorite Wynonna Earp moment.

BL: I don’t know.

VA: I could never pick.  I have a favorite face she’s made, I have a favorite line she’s delivered, I have a favorite comic line vs I don’t know, I love her so much.  She does so much great stuff.  I really loved in the scene – I mean I loved this scene for a lot of reasons – but when she’s patching up Waverly’s little wound.  And she says dudes love scars, and Waverly says do chicks?  The like two second exchange of looks between the two of them…what Melanie does…Wynonna’s face goes from huh? -  to ooh. -  to oh! [laughter]  In like a millisecond.  It’s…it’s so good.  I don’t feel like that’s something you can teach somebody in acting school.  You either can emote with your face or you can’t.

KJ: Or you get one out of the three that she just did.  Not all three in a second.

VA: Right!  Exactly, exactly.  I just remember being like…I wrote like 600 words on that scene.  On the part where no one said anything.  It was the two of them, for sure, but everyone…even the best actors on that show are better when they’re in scenes with Melanie.

KJ: God, you’re right.

BL: The whole show, if you didn’t have Melanie and she wasn’t so good, it would cascade out.  She just cascades out to everyone else.  Sorry, go ahead.

VA: No, you’re right. 

BL: I always think that.  If they didn’t nail that casting of Melanie Scrofano as Wynonna, you wouldn’t have any of the magic.  I don’t know that I have a specific favorite moment.  I always said my favorite episode was season one with the doctor murder guy.

VA: Jack the Ripper.

BL: Yeah, because that episode was so much Melanie.  And Melanie doing so many different things.  She had to do the physical acting where she’s laying in the bed and throws herself out of the bed. 

KJ: Shades of Kill Bill.

BL: Yeah, she had to do so many things in that episode.  I always said hands down, oh it’s easy, that’s my favorite episode.  And then I looooved Goononna, as we were talking about.  Like when Goononna happened, I was like nope, this is my favorite episode.  Again though, it was all Melanie.  But I do think, my favorite I guess moment would have to be where she was giving birth to Alice Michelle and then has to give her away because I can’t even imagine.  First off, being a mother, having been in that situation where you get the baby, and then having to say goodbye to it. And the fact that she was pregnant in real life.  Less than a week from having to go through this experience herself.  I just couldn’t believe that.  I think that would be my most in awe moment of Melanie.

KJ: Cried.  That episode is hard for me to remember because I just cried, and I might have missed some stuff visually because I like I’m crying again.

VA: And then even right after she gives the baby to Waverly, she’s still being supportive of Waverly.  It’s like you don’t have to do that honey, you’re going through a lot right now.  But she’s still like you’re the best of us.

BL: I know, I love the line where Waverly says no Wynonna, you’re the best of us.  I’m telling you that’s when I was making like dolphin noises of feelings. [laughter] I was just dying.  I couldn’t formulate anything.  [laughter] And I literally…I sent Emily a message after that episode, and was like what did you do to me with that episode?  I literally cannot form sentences and I’m making dolphin noises.  And she’s like why don’t you call me and tell me those feelings.  So I called her on the phone and we were like…I literally was shouting at her about my feelings of that episode.  And I was like OK, thanks, bye.  And hung up.  It was just half an hour of me just shouting about my feelings.  That wasn’t even the postmortem.  It was just me having to yell about my feelings. [laughter]

KJ: Can you imagine if you had an audio postmortem, and it was just that conversation? 

BL: I was like [shouting feelings] aaahhhh Earp and then she had to give the baby, and then I was like and Rosita, I was like how dare you do that with Rosita, you made me love her.  I had a whole rant about Rosita. [laughter]

VA: That hurt my feelings.

KJ: That hurt my feelings too.

BL: I still feel so bad about it.

VA: I was so team Rosita.  I was defending her at every turn and then she smashed my Waverly’s face on the ground. 

BL: I was not team Rosita from the start because she was with Doc, and so I was very, very wary of her because I love Doc and Tim Rozon.  I was like who is this bitch?  I was very much like Wynonna.  Which that’s what I loved.  They made Wynonna…I thought it was cool, it showed Wynonna being petty and making snide comments, and all that stuff.  But then her realizing, oh I’m kind of a dick and this girl is actually super smart and maybe I shouldn’t judge, whatever.  But I was not here for Rosita in the beginning.  I was like I don’t want her around, who is she?  And then I fell for her and loved her, and believed in her so much.  And then she did that, you guys.

VA: She’s just trying to survive, I know.  But it hurt.  It’s hard to defend her after she hurt Waverly, you know?

KJ: Yeah, it’s the don’t hurt Willow syndrome. 

VA: Yeah.  Cause it’s Waverly.  Waverly is Waverly.

BL: Waverly is Waverly.  [laughter]

KJ: Totally off subject, but totally on subject.  There’s a street two miles from me named Waverly in my new little town.  I was really excited about it.  OK, go on.

VA: One of my favorite intersections here in New York is the corner of Waverly and Gay. [laughter]

KJ: What?

VA: Down in the Village, there’s a street, there’s a Waverly Street.  Or Waverly Place.  And there’s Gay Street.  And they intersect with each other.  It’s a great corner.

KJ: They sure do. [laughter]  That is glorious.  Wow.

BL: You’ll have to take Kat there for a photo.

VA: For sure.  If we ever have Feminist Thrilljoys reunion in New York, we should definitely go there.  But that actually transitions well to…unless anyone else has more on that they want to talk about?

KJ: No.

BL: No.

VA: OK.  I wanted to talk briefly about the gay on the show, and how…

KJ: I loved you before you were gay. [laughter].  It’s just like Heathers, I love my dead gay son. [laughter]

VA: Just overall, I just love that Waverly and Nicole both have such rich and complicated story lines that have nothing to do with them being gay, but then also have a very rich and complicated story line with each other in a relationship.  I think that that’s rare.  I think that on TV it’s often, oh these two characters are in a relationship and their relationship is gonna have this awesome storyline, but that’s it.  That’s their whole storyline.  These two women are dating each other.  Instead of having them each have their own storylines and then also a relationship storyline.  I think that the show balances that very, very well.  One of my favorite things about the Wayhaught storyline was that it was established right away, and it was never a huge huge thing.  Their gayness specifically wasn’t a huge thing.  Their feelings for each other ended up being the big thing.  Nicole was out before the show started, that was never a part of her storyline.  There’s no coming out for her.  She was just like I see this girl that I really like, and I’m not gonna be like creepy and predatory about it, but I’m just gonna stand here and do heart eyes at her from across the room until she notices me back.  I thought that that was a really cool way to go about it.  And having Waverly kind of come in to that realization on her own without any pushing from Nicole, and kind of being like…yeah no, I do really, really like this woman so I’m gonna climb her like a tree and kiss her on the couch! [laughter]

KJ: Climb her like she’s on a couch.  And she didn’t even do that.  It was Waverly who made the first move.

VA: Exactly.

KJ: And I think also if she didn’t, Nicole never…was just like, I like you.  The scene that they had where they were outside the sheriff’s office/

VA: /You’re a lesbian not a unicorn, right?  That one?

KJ: The ultimate/

BL: /Miscommunication.

KJ: Mhmm.  Huh? What? Totally talking about two different things.  Which that was amazing.  You could write that on paper, but to deliver that is something totally different.  And they delivered it in a way that is pretty iconic.  If you look back and you want to make a YouTube edit of one of the most classic little gay moments, that would be one of them I think.

BL: Yeah that and their meeting scene I think is just iconic.  Such a great scene.

KJ: That’s what people want, right?  They want someone to just take charge and be like well…walking in and asking for a cappuccino in a bar at like 10 am. [laughter]  Do they even serve that there?

VA: And then when she left her card, and she’s like the name’s Haught or whatever.  And Waverly’s like of course it is. [laughter]  It was like you knew she was doomed from the start.  It was so good, and it was such a good part of Waverly’s journey because she was…her whole thing in the beginning was trying to figure out who the hell she even was.  Because she wasn’t the Earp heir, but she had all of this Earp knowledge about the curse, and she was smarter than the small town she was in.  But she was kind of feeling trapped there, so she was kind of figuring out her place in everything, and part of that just happened to include being a baby bisexual. [laughter]

KJ: Right, yeah.  And one thing she does know for sure – all the things she doesn’t know – she knows that she loves Nicole Haught.

VA: Yeah.

BL: No matter what universe.

VA: Yeah!  Aww, yes the alternate universe of them falling in love all over again was so wonderful.

KJ: Mhmm.  Pickles and all. [laughter]

VA: Yeah, it was so good.  I loved…uh, oh crap.  That thought just went out of my brain.

KJ: That’s me all the time, so.

VA: Oh, I remember!  I loved the scene when it was…the dude chicks moment was like a baby step of coming out to Wynonna, but more of in a theoretical way.  But the scene at the end of season one where Nicole comes in and Willa points the gun at her, and Waverly’s like “I love her”, and panics to protect her to Wynonna.  And then that scene that they have after Willa runs out where Nicole’s on the ground and Wynonna’s stressed that she’s a revenant.  When they realize it’s just that she has a bulletproof vest on.  And Wynonna’s like oh great, then I have no more concerns right now.  [laughter]  They start to kiss, she’s like fine you do that, I’ll go get our coats and kind of runs. I thought that that moment was so sweet and funny, and I really…I loved…it was like the perfect Wynonna reaction to all of it.  I don’t wanna watch my baby sister make out with somebody, I’m just gonna let you do it though.  See ya in a minute.

KJ: And also they never had a talk.  Wynonna and Waverly, on screen anyhow.  It could be implied somewhere.  But they never had a talk, not even words were spoken.  It was literally just faces that were made by Wynonna in response.  It’s just like oh what are you and Nicole like poker buddies or whatever she said?

VA: Oh yeah, best friends now.

KJ: Yeah cause she was going to some card game or something.

BL: The poker spectacular.

KJ: Poker party sounds like fun too, but whatever.

VA: Poker, I don’t even know her.  [laughter] That was bad.

KJ: Oh boy.  We turned into like, thirteen year old boys.  But that was just a look as well.  Everything has just been a look and not…it takes Wynonna some time to figure things out, but it’s so adorable.

VA: Oblivious Wynonna, yeah.  And she does end up having some hesitancies about the relationship, but it has nothing to do with Nicole being a woman.  It has everything to do with her being protective of her baby sister.  And knowing that they specifically – these two Earp girls – have a lot of people to be suspicious of.  They have a lot of reasons to worry about people’s motives getting close to them.  It never is an issue of oh, I don’t trust that my sister’s actually queer.  It’s always just like, if you hurt her, I will hurt you.  It is nice that Nicole and Wynonna have their own relationship as Officer Haught and Wynonna of the Black Badge Division.  They have their whole own dynamic that has nothing to do with Waverly, which I also really like.

KJ: Right, and then there’s going…I don’t know, season three just looks…that last scene of season two just looks like trouble. [laughter] So I love it.  I do, I love it.  Not only…I mean, it wasn’t enough like oh, we have the one queer couple or whatever.  Here ya go.  There’s also just Jeremy, who is so delightful and adorable.

VA: Unabashedly unashamed of his crush on Doc.

KJ: And also just a nerd too.  He’s a little boy nerd.  He’s not a little boy.  He’s a little tiny, adorable man.  And those scenes are so cute too, so.

VA: Doc is so sweet with him too, like giving him his hat.

KJ: Yeah, the hero hat moment.  And that scene when – I can’t believe that they did this, but I love that they did – the last episode of season two where Jeremy’s like I gotta let Wayhaught know.  And Doc’s like Wayhaught? [laughter]  It’s like the Wikipedia. 

VA: Yes, that was such a good moment.

KJ: [imitating Doc] Wayhaught.

BL: That was what I wanted to talk [laughter]…I did want to mention, we obviously all like the women of Wynonna Earp a ton, and that’s a big thing, but what I love about this show is how good the men are on it.  Obviously Tim Rozon, well he’s like the Earpiest Earp of everybody.

VA: He loves the show the most.  It’s so cute.

KJ: Yeah.

BL: He is like, in it with the rest of us.  But I loved him.  And I loved the whole first season that we kind of had that love triangle with Wynonna and Doc and Dolls, but it didn’t feel like where I was actively shipping one side.  I don’t know, it was super balance.

KJ: How did they do that?

BL: I know.  I was like fine with either happening.  Either thing happening.

KJ: Right, but…yeah.  That is absolutely true.  Even when it was Doc with Rosita.  You were still just like, well I mean Doc’s still on screen, right? [laughter] So that’s good.  He’s a handsome devil that man.

BL: He is.  But yeah, I love too though…I don’t know.  The men are just written in this way where it’s like they always trust in Waverly and Wynonna.  They always trust in their abilities, and they don’t try to undermine them or doubt them.  We watch some other shows where the male characters are problematic.

VA: And in the beginning, Dolls did kind of.  He wasn’t listening to Wynonna, and his way failed every time.  So he eventually figured out that he should just listen to, trust Wynonna more.  But that was the whole point.  I thought it was very well done.  He was like here’s this other gun that’s not Peacemaker, she’s like this is not going to work.  He was like trust me, she was like I do not because this is not going to work.  And it didn’t work.  So it wasn’t ever like oh, he knew better, that’s why this happened.  Whenever he didn’t trust her, things went awry.  I thought that was very cool.  And he eventually learned to trust her/

KJ: /The only thing…go ahead.

VA: /without question kind of, trusted.  No, go ahead.

KJ: I was just going to say the only thing he put his foot down on was not cutesy call names. [laughter]  That was as far as he could go with his, you know.  And even that didn’t work, so.

VA: No, cause then they ended up giving each other cutesy call names.  Angelpants and Bacon Donut.

BL: Even Doc Holliday is always known as the best sharp shooter in the land, but at the end of the day, it’s always Wynonna that’s taking the last shot.  And he’s fine with that.  He’s there and supporting it.  It’s just so refreshing to see the male characters like that.

KJ: Do you want us to get…I can get wood.  [laughter]  Or I can…he does other things.  You know what I’m talking about, right? I brought wood.

VA: Oh, oh.

BL: Don’t be cross, I got wood. [laughter]

VA: I thought you Kat were saying that you were going to get wood about something, and I was like what is going on?/

BL: /I know, I was like what’s happening?

KJ: No.  No, no.  Let’s not be ridiculous.

VA: I do love from that whole scene with the don’t be cross I’ve got wood, I love Doc and Waverly’s relationship too.  There’s such a sweet little bond they’ve got that I really like.

BL: When he called her baby girl in that alternate universe, I was like Stop. It. Why. Are. You. Coming. Right. For. My. Heart. Emily. [laughter]

KJ: Was that a dolphin moment?

BL: It was more like [deep, dramatic voice] he did NOT. [laughter]

VA: And even when they’re not super getting along.  In that episode when Waverly looks at him, and he’s like I know your tell is you’re always lying.  Her whole face is so hurt by it.  He’s Doc Holliday!  Her hero is a human, and it was very hard to watch.  And obviously they get over it.  It was really nice to have those two have such an emotional moment.

BL: Yeah.  And Tim is like, so good.  Obviously I find Doc Holliday very sexy and whatever.  Get all the feelings.  But I feel like when it’s him and Melanie, it’s just like – especially in season two – I felt like the had so many moments…like we said they’re just like do stuff with your faces guys here.  They just speak volumes between them without saying anything.  I think Tim is so, so good in this role. 

KJ: The role he was meant to play.

BL: And the fact that he is just as much of a fanboy about the show offscreen makes him even better.

VA: One of my favorite subtle things that he did this season was when, in the beginning of the season, his hat gets eaten by that monster or whatever.  And the next few episodes, so many times, even sometimes just in the background, he’ll go to tip his had or adjust it and it’s just not there.  It’s just so subtle and so well done.  Or if someone mentions him not having his hat, the face that he makes.  It was so good!  It was so good.  He was so good.

KJ: The look.  He actually looks at his pointer finger and his thumb after.  [imitating Doc] You failed me! [laughter] I know exactly what you’re talking about.  Even when he’s in the background and you notice it.  You are so interested in everyone that is in these scenes.  There are many shows where you could watch and you’re so engaged with one person, but you want to see what everyone is doing.  There’s always these little nuances.  Someone’s doing something that you’re just like woah, what did you do?

VA: That’s why rewatching this show is so fun, because when you don’t have to focus on the main action there is something else to watch.  I catch something new every time I watch.

KJ: Where are you guys now in the rewatch?  I was driving across country, I only got to watch the first two.

BL: Goononna.  We’re about to watch Goononna.

KJ: Is it Sunday or Friday?  I can’t remember.

BL: Friday nights.  During what our friend Bonnie has dubbed Wynonna hour.

VA: It’s like the witching hour.

BL: Fridays at 10.  But it’s crazy to rewatch too, to see how early they planted things where you just didn’t even pay attention to little stuff.  You’re like oh my gosh, how did they know to plant all those little seeds way back?

VA: Good storytelling.

KJ: It’s also crazy to watch the beginning of season two and be like Melanie Scrofano is pregnant.  We haven’t even gotten to that.  How amazing.  Full, pregnant woman just…

VA: Kickin ass.

KJ: Kickin ass.  Kickin ass as someone who you didn’t know was pregnant yet.  The character wasn’t revealed to be pregnant.  But then the actor still doing all that stuff before it’s revealed.  And then when you know that the character and the actor are both pregnant, still doing all of that stuff.  So, yeah.

VA: Truly amazing.

KJ: I understand she wasn’t doing backflips, but she was there on set working super long hours.

BL: She was laying on the cold church floor next to Michael Eklund.  That’s not fun when you’re pregnant. [laughter] She…what was I going to say?  I forget.

KJ: Oh, welcome to me again.

BL: I know.

KJ: You two are being adorably Kat today. [laughter]

BL: I think it’s just amazing when they talk about how that wasn’t the story that was planned for the character, because it was so well done.  It seemed so fitting, and like something that Wynonna would do.  I can’t imagine that it wasn’t ever the plan.  It’s so shocking to me that it wasn’t the plan.

KJ: And I guess we should talk about the fact that OK, the actor Melanie Scrofano was so nervous.  She was like I’m pregnant, and then she’s got to tell…not just your showrunner, but the rest of your cast.  You may not have a job because maybe they’ll just nix this show because I’m pregnant.  These things that women have to worry about in the workplace all of the time.  Oh, we’re not going to hire this 30 year old woman because it’s about time for her to be pregnant, and then she’s going to want to take our money for taking three months off or whatever it is that corporations think.  You have one season of a show that’s on SYFY…

BL: That barely got renewed.

KJ: Mhmm.  And they stuck with it.  I don’t know if that was a fight.  We can do this, let us do this, just trust us.  Or that was SYFY that was just we trust you/

BL: /They said SYFY was right on board.  Like as soon as Emily told them, they were like OK yeah, let’s do it.  And then they actually gave them two more episodes to the order, so.

KJ: Yeah, so Doc hat tip to SYFY.

BL: I’ve been through that, and I can’t even imagine.  I was afraid to tell my work that I was pregnant, and I was at like a long job that I’d been at forever.  I just work in like this little tech company, whatever, and I was afraid to tell that.  So I can’t even imagine what that was like for Melanie.

VA: And also it’s a sci-fi show.  Other showrunners would’ve recast her.  They would’ve been like well, Wynonna got possessed by a demon and now she looks like this.  It would’ve been very easy for them to be like we don’t want to deal with this.  But Emily is not that kind of person. She wasn’t going to write somebody off just because they were pregnant.  So that was an episode that most of us didn’t get screeners for because they didn’t want the reveal to leak.  So I hadn’t seen it until it was live.  I remember being disappointed when they revealed Wynonna was pregnant.  I have seen many sci-fi shows do this and it gets gross, or it’s an alien possession and it feels rapey.  Part of me…it just ends up being all about that.  I’ve seen it fail so, so, so many times that I felt disappointed when it was revealed.  I had a lot of trust in Emily, but I still kind of felt kind of icky about it.  But then I read that interview that they revealed right after the episode aired that said that it was because Melanie was pregnant. I was like that changes everything.  That makes it an important move.  It wasn’t just like a oh, we didn’t know what to do so we decided to make her pregnant.  It was like we wanted to do this right.  And then obviously it ended up working out beautifully.

BL: That, knowing that Melanie was pregnant, and then when Emily said she wanted to do like Marge Gunderson of Fargo, and I was like yes! [laughter]

KJ: I’m gonna need a bigger coat.

BL: I was like it’s all gonna be OK guys.

VA: And it was indeed.  I mean it wasn’t OK in that all of our feelings got shattered to pieces, but it was great storytelling.

KJ: This is a magical – and I don’t even like to use that word, it sounds so hokey – group of actors.  Emily has talked about this before, that they’re really particular about who they hire.  They want people to work really well together.  Not only do you love your showrunner, you love these characters.  All of them have something interesting and cool and adorable and hot.  Whatever they’re bringing to the table, all at the same time.  But then we haven’t even really got to the part where all of these actors are so engaged and awesome.  We talk about Tim the Earpiest Earp, and that is totally true.  But the rest of them, they are involved in all the live tweeting.  They together, and they know their fans are super into it.  They’ll take a photo of all of them together, or as much of them as can be together.  And if they’re not together they’re still tweeting with their other co-actors.

BL: And that’s like a huge commitment.  They’re done shooting, they probably are off wanting to do other stuff, other projects.  Just go on vacation. The fact that they do that live tweet every week is just, it’s huge.  I feel like there’s weeks where I’m like it’s summer, I’m busy.  I don’t want to say it feels like work for me to do it, but where I’m like ohh it takes an effort for me to do it some weeks.  The fact that they’re all doing it every week is just like, crazy.

KJ: And you think it’s just 42 minutes to just live tweet.  It’s not.

BL: It’s a lot.

KJ: It’s at a time that you know, people are doing stuff.  Yeah, we could talk about the cast a lot.

VA: They all seem to genuinely like each other.  It’s something that’s hard to fake.  I don’t know.  They have such a good dynamic.  Like you said, Emily has talked about…she’ll take…if she has two people up for a role, she’ll take the slightly weaker actor who has a better personality over the stronger actor who seems cold.  The vibe of her set is very important to her, and she wants people to feel comfortable and have fun.

KJ: I think it works both ways.  Because now fans…I really…I don’t know, maybe you know because you’ve been involved in other fandoms.  People are sending donuts to writers, you know?  We know the people behind the scenes are of this show.  Paige from SEVEN24 Films.  We just know these people because they’re engaged and they love this show and they believe in it.  Do you know anyone who sends donuts to writers?

VA: I don’t even know that there are other fandoms that can list some of the writers in the writer’s room at all.  There are other fandoms that I’ve been a part of that you know the name of the EP or the showrunner, but even them you might not be engaged with.

KJ: Right.  We talk about them like they’re rock stars.  And that’s fine with me.

VA: And that’s also a testament to Emily.  She’s constantly calling out…people are complimenting her on an episode, she’s like here are the people who wrote the episode.  She’s constantly lifting up the people around her which I think is really awesome.

KJ: Wow.  We got silent all for one second.

BL: I know. We’re all like [Fandras sigh].

KJ: [Fandras voice] Yeah.

BL: No, but that’s what I love about Earpers though.  It’s obviously the actors that are doing awesome work, but there are so many more people that go into making a show.  The fact that Earpers want to know that information, and want to know who the people are and thank them.  I guess maybe we can transition into talking about Earpers at this point maybe.

VA: Wait, can I go back?  I forgot to talk a little bit about/

BL: /No/

VA: /Why I love Waverly…oh, OK bye. [laughter]

BL: Just kidding.

VA: I wanted to talk just a little bit about why I love Waverly Earp as a character on her own.  I feel like I talked about the Wayhaught stuff, but I wanted to talk about Waverly.

KJ: Go to it.

BL: Go ahead.

KJ: Reverse.

VA: Reverse, reverse.  Waverly Earp is one of my favorite characters on television of all time.  She’s somebody who I immediately felt kinship with.  Aside from all of the gay stuff, which obviously I too feel gay.

BL: You loved her before you knew she was gay.

VA: I did love before.

KJ: It was the shotgun.

VA: There was something about her, that she’s…I don’t know exactly what it is.  I love that her whole dynamic is this like, she’s very sweet and she’s very kind.  But she swears up and down.  She’ll call people a shit ticket.  She is very smart, and she’s very strong.  Her optimism and her kindness isn’t a weakness of her character, which is something that on other shows…it’s similar to the season one Supergirl Kara Danvers was a similar way.  Her optimism is what made her a good superhero.  I feel that way with Waverly.  She’s a good person.  She loves her sister, she loves learning, she loves helping.  She wants to be part of this team.  She wanted to be on the Black Badge Division, she didn’t care how.  She just wanted to be part of it.  She wanted to help.  That was her strength.  That was her contribution, her intelligence and her willingness to be helpful.

KJ: Right, and it’s also like that thing where people are like don’t judge…it would be so easy to sort of judge Waverly.  Oh, she’s pretty and she’s young or whatever.  But she knew her shit.

VA: She’s the bubbly bartender, yeah.

BL: How can somebody so pretty be so smart. [laughter]

VA: Right, shutup Champ.  [laughter]

KJ: Oh, Champ.

VA: Exactly, Champ treated Waverly the way that other shows legitimately treat characters like her.  And she’s so much more than that, and I really appreciated that about her.

KJ: She’s also just really pretty. [laughter]

VA: Her face.  And it’s funny because when I was talking to Dom at ClexaCon, she said something about how people are always surprised when she swears because she has this sweet little face.  I find that that’s something that I run into sometimes.  I’ll say something snarky and someone will be like woah!  And I’m like what?

KJ: I’m not a Muppet I just sound like one.

VA: Yeah.  I don’t know.  I just really like Waverly Earp as a character on her own.  Obviously her relationship with Wynonna is very important to me dot tumblr dot com.

BL: And me.

KJ: I don’t even have a sister or a brother.  I don’t have any idea what that relationship is like, and I wish I did.  Watching those two characters I wish I had someone in my corner like that, that was just unconditionally mine.  My blood or something.  I’m jealous of Waverly and Wynonna a little bit.  I don’t know how to say it other than that.

VA: No, I feel the same way.  I have a brother, but I don’t think it’s the same.  I always wanted an older sister.  That’s something I wanted since I was very small.  I had an older cousin that I so admired, and I was like I wish that she was my sister.  I think that there’s something special about sisters that I always gravitated…I feel like I’ve found a version of it in the friendships that I’ve formed.  But it’s obviously not the same.

KJ: Same.

VA: I agree, I think jealousy is a great word to describe it.

BL: Yeah, that’s like my favorite and most important relationship on all of TV, is always the Earp sisters.  As I’ve made well known.  We still don’t know if Waverly is blood related to Wynonna.

VA: It doesn’t matter/

KJ: /Who cares?

BL: /No, but yeah.

VA: /Blood doesn’t make a family, love makes a family.

BL: /I know!  I just love that we still have this mystery of like what is Waverly still two years later.  We still don’t know.  I like that.  I love the…I don’t want to compare to other shows again, but I love that Wynonna Earp never forgets that the sisters relationship is the most important and central relationship to the show, and it always comes down to that love story between them.  It’s always the focal point.  I just think some other shows could do well if they followed a similar/

KJ: /What are you talking about?  What show are you talking about? [laughter] I know now what show you’re talking about.

VA: And that makes sense to me now, why Emily would say it’s Frozen meets Buffy because that’s the whole point of Frozen was the literal, the classic Disney love story was between those two sisters.  So that’s perfect.  I loved the scene where Waverly finally said something about maybe not being her sister because she might not be an Earp.  And Wynonna was like what the hell are you talking about, no you’re my sister, I don’t care.  She just brushed the other stuff off so quickly.  It was something that Waverly had been carrying for so many episodes and was so worried about.  Wynonna was like I don’t care what your DNA test says, you’re my sister.  That’s it.  That’s the end of the story.  I loved that so much.

KJ: Even Nicole kind of said you’re the Earpiest Earp.  I think she was also thinking the same thing.  Whatever comes back.

BL: We were talking about favorite scenes.  I think that one of where Wynonna is pregnant and sitting on the floor and crying and Melanie and Dom…that was just such a good scene.  With the I’m not telling you everything’s gonna be OK, I’m gonna tell you that I’m here for you. 

VA: Oh yeah. Oof.

KJ: Back to back.  The door.  Just the door, keeping tears at bay.

BL: Oh yeah, that was very Frozen-like too.  That shot.

VA: [singing] Do you want to build a snowman?

BL: But the one where she gets the note from Doc, I was like…and Waverly and Wynonna are sitting on the floor together.  That one was like, killer.

VA: When Melanie cries, I cry.  That is the rule.  I’ve tried to fight it.  It fails. [laughter]  Like that scene with her on the bed with the teddy bear.  Forget it.

BL: And the song.  [fake anger] Andrea Higgins!

KJ: I just keep thinking…I just keep seeing dolphins now.  I swear I just keep seeing dolphins. [laughter]

BL: It’s accurate.  And every time it’s probably accurate.

KJ: I want to watch with both of you during some intense…

BL: You should see the DM’s we send back and forth to each other when one of us is actually watching it for the first time.

VA: All caps. All caps. [laughter]

BL: Just all screaming, but on DM’s so it’s all capitals for like an hour.  There’s a lot of HER FACE.  I KNOW. BUT HER FACE. I KNOW. [laughter]

VA: Yup, so true.  So true.


VA: Yup, every time.

KJ: Can we talk about one…I don’t see much more on this bullet list, but can we talk about one other thing.

BL: Yeah.

KJ: For sure.  I don’t know how we could not mention this person, do you know what I’m going to say?

BL: Oh yeah, I had a bullet for this too.  But you go ahead.

KJ: Dani Fucking Kind.

VA: [singing] Dani Fucking Kind.

BL: She was under the umbrella of that I just wanted to talk about all of the awesome villains that are on this show.

KJ: Yes, of course.  I mean. Yes.  The awesome villains.

VA: But also Dani Fucking Kind was special because she was two badass characters on the show.  She was Mercedes and she was the widow, and both of them were so different and so fierce and so great. 

BL: Yeah, in doing the rewatch I’m remembering how great Mercedes was.  I was like oh, she was such a fun character.

VA: I know.  I really hope we get OG Mercedes back for season three.

KJ: Today Emily posted/

BL: /Please Emily Andras, the God and Savior.  We’re going to pray to our candles for it. [laughter]

KJ: All eighteen of them.  Or sixteen.  She posted a picture today, Emily, on Instagram of her, Dani Kind, and Melanie Scrofano, and please remind me of Mama Earp’s name?

BL: No that was not Mama Earp.  That was Jann Arden, she’s not playing Mama Earp.  She plays Dani Kind’s mom on Workin’ Moms, so that’s probably why.

KJ: Right, and I was like why are you with her right now?

VA: I know.  As soon as I saw Emily, Melanie, and Dani in the same photo I was like what’s happening?  Tell me everything. [laughter]

BL: I laughed because I woke up and Valerie had sent me that tweet and was like what is happening.  And then I went on Instagram and Kat you had commented on the photo and was like does this mean Dani Kind’s coming back?  I was like good job, Thrilljoys.  We’re all on brand here. [laughter]

VA: We’re on that Dani Kind beat.

KJ: And Emily responded I don’t know Dani Kind, I only know DFK.

BL: Awww, nice.

KJ: Which is true.  But it isn’t just the main characters that you see at the front in the credits.  They’re so memorable, I mean how could you forget Bobo.  You bring him back, you thought he was dead, you want him back.  He comes back wearing a fur coat and then wearing a straightjacket.  Every line…

BL: Michael Eklund is so good.

KJ: Yeah.

BL: He is one of those people, like where do you find him?  He’s just amazing.

VA: That scene with him leaving the asylum in a straightjacket is one of the scariest things I’ve ever seen.

KJ: The boots, mhmm.

VA: The thing, and kind of like lunging after people.  I was like, we’re all fucked.

BL: Of course he has to get his coat.

KJ: That’s a ladies coat. [laughter]

BL: You have to be a certain kind of character to rock a coat like that.  He pulls it off.

KJ: To be so engaged, to be so into that character while he’s being so evil is a testament to the actor as well.

VA: And that teeth snapping thing he does! [laughter] I don’t…it’s like so creepy.  It’s so good.

KJ: Like Iceman from Top Gun[laughter]  That’s right Iceman, I am dangerous. 

VA: And then that flashback episode where we got to see the softer side of Bobo.  Michael is so talented.

KJ: So yeah, you have these I mean “big bads” and you love them.

VA: They’re all so layered/

BL: /I think they do a great job of using him in the right amount too.  I’m sure he’ll be back in season three. I have no knowledge of that, but.

VA: Yeah, it’s…and like…the…I…it’s really…like…wow, OK. [laughter] When I start talking about the storytelling of Wynonna Earp I get very overwhelmed.  It is so well written.  It’s so smart and well thought out.  The villains, they all have these layered backstories.  They all have this purpose.  They’re not just trying to ruin lives.  Their goal isn’t to destroy the world.  They all have very specific reasons for doing what they’re doing, and very specific motivations.  It’s never just like oh, here’s a demon just doing the demon-y thing.  It’s always so good and layered and complicated and smart. 

KJ: Right, it’s not just like I want – like that James Bond villain thing – like I want to rule the world.  It’s like OK.

VA: Even most of the Marvel movies, it’s like oh/

KJ: /The cheese factor, why they’re doing it.  I can’t.

VA: Or even actually, I remember in Justice League.  I loved Justice League because I’ll watch like Wonder Woman read the paper, I don’t care.  I liked the movie overall, but I was trying to explain what it was about to someone, and I was like I don’t know why the bad guy was doing what he was doing.  He wanted these boxes, I think? It’s really unclear.  It’s not a compelling villain if you don’t even understand why they’re doing what they’re doing. It’s like I’m enjoying this cause I just am enjoying the fight scenes I guess.  I wouldn’t be like oh my God the story in that movie is great.

KJ: God, you’re right.  I don’t know what one villain in any superhero movie even wants.  Like none of them.  I can’t think of anything.

VA: I will say I just saw Avengers: Infinity War.  I won’t spoil it, but that was the first one that I can think of in recent history where I understood the villain’s motivation.  Even though I obviously didn’t agree with it, I felt like they did a good job of humanizing his motivations.


VA: There were plenty of other problems with the movie overall.  I loved Thor: Ragnarok, but what the hell was Cate Blanchett doing? 

KJ: Don’t know.  Looking good.

VA: I don’t know.  Was trying to kill everybody.  Just generally was trying to kill everybody.  Which is fine motivation for a superhero movie, if that’s what you want.  But when you’re watching shows like Wynonna Earp, and it’s like you said, you want to see more of them even though they’re bad guys.

BL: Lots of shades of gray.

VA: Yeah.  Or even the Stone Witch.  When Tucker came back with Clootie’s head.  I was like fuck you Tucker!  I wanted more of her.  [laughter]

BL: I know!  I know.

VA: And she’s a bad guy, I shouldn’t have been mad that a bad guy got killed, but I was.

KJ: Mhmm, yeah. Stone Witch was an interesting character too.

VA: And especially when you get more Clootie backstory.  I don’t know.

BL: Or even like Beth.  I mean we talk obviously about Mercedes and whatever a lot.  But if you look at where Beth was at the beginning of the season.  Meghan Heffern did lots of really good work as Beth.

VA: For sure.

KJ: I can feel him coming. [laughter]

VA: Oh God.

KJ: Oh God, yeah. 

BL: It’s just like prom night all over again, or what did she say? [laughter]

KJ: Both redheads too, so yay!

BL: Yeah I wonder who we will get for season three.  They have big villain shoes to fill.

KJ: You know how Emily said to you, Valerie, it can get gayer.  I want her to say next one it could get more ginger.

VA: She did tweet something a few weeks ago like I only cast redheads or something like that.

KJ: Right, yeah yeah yeah.

VA: Or I can’t stop casting redheads.

KJ: So thankful. [laughter]

VA: Oh, and Bridget did you want to talk about some of the impending guests?

BL: Sure.  I mean I don’t even have season three…I haven’t even tried to think what I want to happen in season three.

VA: That’s OK.

BL: Obviously from the beginning I’ve always wanted – you guys knew Mama Earp was gonna come back at some point – I thought we would see her…I’m still shocked I didn’t realize it was Willa when Willa showed up.  I go back to that episode now and I’m like I should’ve seen the signs that that was Willa, of course.  [laughter] But again it’s like I’m so in it at the moment that I’m not thinking about all this other stuff.

VA: Yeah usually I’m like do you think that this means this?  And Bridget’s like what?  I don’t know. [laughter]

BL: I didn’t think about that at all, I have no idea.  But did you do dolphin noises at this part? [laughter]  I don’t know, I always knew Mama Earp was coming at some point.  I’m very excited to see Mama Earp coming this next season.  I think it’s even cooler that they got Megan Follows to play her.  And now there’s her and there’s Zoie Palmer and Anna Silk.

VA: Do you think they’re going to play good guys or bad guys?

BL: I kind of want Zoie Palmer to be some funny villain. [laughter] I don’t know.

VA: That would be great.

BL: I hope that Zoie gets to use her comedic skills.  I’m so confident that she will.  But I have no idea really, other than her name is Jolene.

VA: [singing] Jolene, Jolene.

KJ: And there’s a Kevin.

BL: And Kevin.  I have no idea who…Anna Silk is Kevin.  After I watched that Anne of Green Gables though…now having Megan Follows, I’m like oh my God this is soooo big you guys.  I can’t describe it if you haven’t seen Anne of Green Gables because I certainly did not get the weight of it before I watched it.  And then I watched Anne of Green Gables and now I feel transformed. [laughter]  Obviously there was all that talk in the offseason about Lucy Lawless possibly playing Mama Earp.

KJ: Mhmm.

BL: And I think that would’ve been super rad too, obviously.  Who wouldn’t have wanted her?  But the fact that they got Megan Follows is so cool.  I watched Anne of Green Gables and I felt like it explained so much to me about the way that Emily Andras writes her stories and her characters.  I don’t know.  It was like a light turned on for me.  The fact that now that Anne of Green Gables is playing Mama Earp is like, so cool. 

VA: That is very cool. 

KJ: Bridget is ready.

BL: I am so ready.  I’m ready to fully embarrass myself if I actually get to interview Megan Follows.

KJ: Which you will.

BL: I’ll make a total fool of myself.  She’ll be like why is this girl telling me this story of watching with her daughters for like fifteen minutes now.  She needs to wrap it up. [laughter] That will be me.

KJ: I’m sorry, it got quiet.  I thought Valerie was going to say something beyond that.

BL: No, but yeah.  I’m excited for season three, but I would also love if Dani Fucking Kind comes back.

KJ: Yeah, what do we know about season three?

BL: Not a lot.

KJ: We know those three actors.

BL: I think they covered…after ClexaCon, and the Wynonna Earp cast was just at the Calgary Expo.  They did panels.  I’ve tried to recap both of them, and I was like wow…you guys just had like two hours of panels and you really have given us nothing about season three. [laughter]

KJ: Right.  I think the only thing that Emily said that people paid attention to, glommed onto or whatever, was just Wayhaught are fine. 

BL: Yeah.  And we’re supposed to see more of Nicole I guess.

KJ: Well, there you go.  Season three.

BL: I assume there will be something with Nicole and the cult, and figuring out what her connection is to all of that.

KJ: And a Christmas episode or something, or a holiday.  Excuse me, holiday?/

VA: /Oh yeah!  A Christmas special, holiday special.

BL: But even then, they basically just were like there’s gonna be a Christmas special or something.  We know nothing beyond that.  Is it an actual Christmas…I assume it’s just one of the episodes.

KJ: I can’t wait to see a Christmas episode in August. [laughter]

BL: I want to see the Wynonna Earp characters have a pink elephant exchange. [laughter] I literally said…I think one of our postmortems last year with Emily, we were talking about that Pussy Willows sign.  That great sign and how it lit up.  She was like I don’t know what to do now with that sign.  It’s such a great sign, but what do I do now that we’re done with that episode? I was like well I’m pretty sure you put that out at Christmas because it’s a great Christmas ornament.  We jokingly were like yeah, Purgatory Christmas or whatever.  So if the Pussy Willows sign is in the Christmas episode, I have the postmortem interview proof of where that happened. 

KJ: Someone walking in with it under their arm.  [laughter]  Ta-da!

BL: So we’ll see.  I don’t know.  I’m just excited to have it back.

VA: Me too.

KJ: I know, it’s getting pretty close, right?  Three months.

VA: It feels like so long.  I want more right now.

KJ: Well maybe it will be the beginning of July.  I don’t know.  They haven’t revealed that information yet.  When they do…

VA: We’ll be on it.

KJ: I mean wait til they just post a photo.  One promo photo.  Just be like oh thank God, there it is.

VA: We are a thirsty fandom. [laughter]

KJ: Also a hungry one.  Did I mention that I wanted Taco Bell?

VA: And actually I sort of interrupted us, I derailed us when Bridget wanted to start talking about the fandom, so we should do a little bit about that now.

BL: Umm, yeah.  I don’t know.  I just love Earpers.  They constantly surprise me with new and exciting ways that they do something good, or…they just make me laugh.  That’s what I love the most. 

VA: Yeah, you wrote in the outline you wanted to talk about Earpers, that’s what I had in my note.  It’s so fun to find people.  We all have the same sense of humor because this is the same kind of writing that we like.  We all get Emily’s sense of humor so we all get each other’s.  It’s so fun.

KJ: I’m just so happy that I have new friends that are my best friends now because of honestly this show.

BL: Aww.

VA: Yeah.

KJ: You know I have old and dear friends that mean a lot to me.  But there is a stop at what we can talk about sometimes.  I talk about Wynonna Earp a lot, I do.  And it means so much to me.  There is no – how do you say that – when you sort of have a filter…I don’t filter myself with Earpers.  I’m just like oh my God.  I can just say something like oh, that’s haught.  Everyone just knows hot is no longer the word hot, it’s h-a-u-g-h-t.  But just in general, it just feels like my life has been enriched.  It’s doubly good.  Doubly as good?  It’s good twice.  Two times.

BL: I’ve said that to Valerie. I feel like a bigger disconnect now of hanging out with people that I’m not, when I’m not with Earpers as opposed to when I am.  I think it’s a good thing that I have the Earpers and stuff, but I do feel a bigger separation sometimes.  I feel like this is such a huge, huge part of my life now.  Not even just covering the show.  Just everything that is involved with it, all the people.  I feel like if people don’t know that part of me now, it feels like/

KJ: /They don’t know you completely, yeah/

BL: /You don’t know me, because it’s such a huge part of me now.  It seems to have…it’s like a bigger distance now.  I don’t know.  Which is probably what everyone in cults feels like.  [laughter]

VA: There are a lot of similarities between the Wynonna Earp fandom and being in a cult/

BL: /I’m not gonna lie.

KJ: It’s true.

VA: It’s so hard to make new friends as adults, especially if you’re at the same job and you’re friends with your co-workers, but it’s kind of situational.  You don’t always necessarily enjoy hanging out with them outside of work because you’re usually just talking about work.  Or might meet people through friends, and it’s possible.  But I feel like with Wynonna Earp it was like here are a thousand people that like exactly the same show you do and have a similar sense of humor.  Some of them shall be your friends now.

BL: Yeah, and the fact that none of it has slowed down when the show is off the air.  It’s gotten even more crazy and more…there’s no slowing down in the offseason.  Most shows I feel like would, when it’s not airing, you’d stop talking. 

KJ: You’re good.

BL: Yeah.  And it’s like constant, every day with the Earpers, but in the best ways.

KJ: And Bridget and I talked about this as well privately.  Earpers make you want to be better.  There are very few people who make me want to be better.  Genuinely, deeply.  A lot of Earpers make me want to be better.  It sounds cheesy to someone who’s not paying attention or doesn’t watch the show.  I understand that.  How it could seem like that’s not possible, or you’re overstating.  But I’m not.  These are my friends, and I love it.

VA: And we wouldn’t have found each other without Wynonna Earp

KJ: That’s so true. 

VA: Because Bridget and I were live tweeting the same shows for years and never found each other.

BL: Yeah we realized how many times our paths crossed and we never actually got…

VA: It wasn’t until Wynonna Earp brought us together.

KJ: So we wait for the next con to all get together.  Wait for the next new episode.  We don’t even really need that, we still engage with each other and keep it going.

VA: Yeah, and going to cons where there are Earpers is so fun. Even the people that you talk to just that one time at the con and never talk to again or had never talked to before, those experiences are still so fun and so just specifically Earpy. 

KJ: True.  Just so true.  Like when I went to DragonCon and I saw someone dressed as Lady Bobo.

BL: She was awesome.

VA: I remember Lady Bobo!

KJ: And I met her that one time, but I always wonder…I’m like how is she?  How is she doing? [laughter]  It’s the only time I’ve ever seen that person.

BL: We were talking about what cons we’re going to or whatever, and I was like…two years ago…well first off, I thought that people that went to cons, I was like I don’t understand that at all.  Why would you go to cons or whatever.  Now I’m like planning my life around cons.

KJ: Vacation time and money.

BL: It’s not even necessarily to see the cast.  It’s like well the cast will be there, but that just means all of the Earpers will be there.  I’m just going to get to see my friends then, that’s way better.

KJ: It’s true.

BL: Sorry Kat, you are pretty good, but.

VA: And it’s fun because I think the cast recognizes some of the people from Twitter.  Even the first time that I met some of them they were like what’s your handle on Twitter, and they were like yeah I’ve seen your name during the live tweets.  It’s just really funny.  They are so engaged with the fandom.  It feels like they’re part of it instead of just us and then them.  It’s kind of like yes, they are the reason we’re here, but they feel more attainable…not attainable, that sounds bad.

KJ: Reachable?  Like just, yeah. Connected.  I also wonder for them what it must be like to be on something else.  To work on something else that is not Wynonna Earp, because clearly they appreciate and love this.  I don’t know. When you’re working on…I know Tim has worked on Schitt’s Creek.  Is he just like is anybody here an Earper? 

BL: I think they live tweet or whatever.  But it’s like, they’ll live tweet…or like Dani Kind does with Workin’ Moms.  They’re really good about live tweeting the episode, but it’s like you do the episode and then that’s kind of it.  Earpers just like, never stop I feel like.  What does Sally always say?  Always Be Earpin.  [laughter]  It’s constant.  We say they didn’t give us anything for season three, but they know that’s what teases Earpers and gets us way more excited.  I feel like on other shows they have to give you like, here’s a clip, or here’s this.  They need to drum up the excitement. They don’t need to do that with Earpers.  Earpers will take that one picture of Nicole Haught’s house and they’ll dissect every single thing that’s in the house. [laughter] And come up with backstories about it, and all kinds of stuff.

VA: Literally the other day Kat Barrell tweeted a photo of her final – she was wrapped I guess – and took a picture of her boots.  And all Twitter has been talking about is where can I find these boots?  And Zappos was like I’ll make you a lasagna and tell you how to find these boots.  Everyone is talking now about those boots because they’re something new to talk about about Wynonna Earp.

KJ: We got Carvel to watch Wynonna Earp.

VA: Official sponsor of Wynonna Earp season three.  Just kidding, they’re not.

BL: Even Cinnabon was tweeting.  [laughter]  It’s insane. 

VA: It’s a fun fandom to interact with, so these other brands are getting in on it too.

KJ: They’re like who are these crazy people that just keep saying Carvel with the words Wynonna Earp.

BL: I think there’s so many other fandoms that just complain or focus on negative things.  And by no means is Wynonna Earp the show perfect.  There’s things we could definitely sit here and talk about, but Earpers just…they’re just so unabashed about shouting about this is what I love.  It’s gotta be so refreshing to hear.

VA: I mean as someone who has done recaps for multiple shows and kind of had an eye in a lot of fandoms and been part of a lot of fandoms, it’s definitely refreshing to not have to mute one ship’s hashtag within the fandom because the people there are just fighting with each other all of the time.  Or not have to worry about not talking about one pairing more than another because it will cause someone to shout at you on the internet.  It’s so nice to just be able to follow the show’s main hashtag and go through it and always find something funny in there or something nice in there.

KJ: Positive.

VA: Yeah.  I feel like even the things, if anything came up that people were disagreeing about, they…I’ve seen such really great and open discussions about it.  Obviously there are going to be some people who are just like bye forever, and they’re gonna be made.  But I’ve seen so many really really great conversations about the things people disagreed with.  And I think that that’s very rare for people to not just be like I’m putting everything on fire now!

BL: Yeah.  But I think it comes obviously, I think it starts with Emily at the top.  Fostering that kind of…but also like, and the show doesn’t have these stupid love triangles where we’re pitting people against each other either, so that helps. 

KJ: It’s just positive.  The fandom is positive.  The show is generally quite positive. 

BL: I love it so much.

KJ: It’s what you need.  It’s what you need.  It’s what I needed.

VA: It’s so pretty and I love it so much. [laughter]

KJ: Also the entire time that we’ve been recording this podcast, can I just tell you.  One, I haven’t seen a wasp since I was a kid.  There is a wasp in this house, it is just crawling on the carpet.  It’s dying, but I want to save it, but we’ve been talking and I don’t even know if it’s going to live if I save it.  I’ll try.  I’ll try.  It’s going real slow, I’ll be able to catch it.

VA: Aww, poor little wasp. 

KJ: Yeah.  Do you want me to pause now and get it?

VA: Just make sure you update us after when you save it. 

KJ: I will, I’m serious.  Aww, it’s struggling on the carpet.  I’ll get it.  Don’t worry.  It’ll go out there in the backyard and have a great time.  [laughter]

BL: Or in wasp heaven.

KJ: At least it will be outside where it belongs. [laughter]  Not in a shag carpet.  C’mon.

VA: No place for a wasp!

KJ: Anyhow.  So, ladies.

BL: I’m sure I missed something, but I think I’m good.

KJ: I think we did good.  I think we might be done. 

BL: If we forgot something, forgive us.  It’s not because we don’t love that part.

KJ: We’ll talk about it next week and the week after and the week after.  The recording after or whatever.

BL: I’m sure throughout season three of Wynonna Earp, Valerie has already said we need to have Wynonna corner.

VA: Purgatory pitstop where we talk about it.  I can’t imagine us not talking continuously talking about it while that’s airing.  It is such an important thing to all three of us.  It is an important thing to all three of us as a trio.

KJ: Right.

VA: It is how we kind of found each other, so.  For sure.

KJ: Special.

VA: Yeah.

BL: Yeah.

KJ: OK, well.  There it is. 

VA: We did it!  Episode seven!

BL: Hopefully we did Earpers proud. 

KJ: I would like to take this moment, I’m sure all of us would as a collective.  An Earper also is the one who edits our podcast, that’s Deb Snyder.  We also have an editor who does amazing work for us and does that.  That’s the heart of Earpers.  And if you haven’t heard, she edited sort of a blooper reel.  Is that available?  I was driving cross country when that happened. Is that available on our website?  Is it iTunes available?

VA: It’s on SoundCloud right now, but we can ask Deb if we can put it up as like a mini, bonus content.

KJ: Yeah.  So.

VA: It’s very funny.

KJ: We all cackled various times listening to that.  Thank you so much.  We didn’t ask her to do that, it was just something she was like this seems like a good idea.  And that is literally Earpers.  She just did something without even us asking.  So thank you again.

BL: Just to make us happy and give us a little laugh.

KJ: And it was super fun.  I love it.

VA: Mhmm.  And Earpers have also been helping us transcribe our episodes to make them accessible, so that’s also volunteer based.  I think all Earpers so far.  Just goes to show what this fandom is like.

KJ: An Earper created our logo too.  Scary Krystal, thank you.

VA: Yup, we’ve got Earp in our blood.

KJ: Yeah also, well…I won’t get into it.

VA: Oh boy.

BL: Oh boy.

KJ: There’s a wasp that’s dying, I won’t get into it.  So if you would like to find us on social media I believe that Annie has something that she’s got to say.

BL: She will fill us in.  And thank you.  While we won’t always talk about Wynonna Earp on this podcast, we likely will mix it in a lot.  I think this was good episode seven material, so hopefully we lived up to the billing of episode seven.

KJ: Yeah.  Yeah.  


KJ: Alright, Annie.

VA: Take it away.

KJ: I’m gonna have Annie take us out instead of Mom.  So, Annie.  Take it away.

Annie: Follow us on social media.  We’re on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram @FemThrilljoys.  If you have any more thoughts on this episode or in general, you can email us at  And last, but not least, if you’re feeling extra generous, please rate and review us on iTunes.  Thanks!

[end podcast]