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Bridget Liszewski, Kat Jetson, and Valerie Anne take a break from smashing the patriarchy to chat about feminist-y things they love.

Episode 6: $uper Sweatshirt Transcript

May 17, 2018

In Episode 6, we talk about a singer who fought for her right to make her own music, a show about a pretty super gal and her badass sister (and their sweatshirt-wearing pal), and a show about time travel headed by one of the most resilient characters on television.

These transcripts would not be possible without the volunteer efforts of our amazing listeners. Huge thanks once again to Liz for helping us out on this episode! Find her on twitter at @Earpnado.


Feminist Thrilljoys – Episode 6 – $uper Sweatshirt


BL = Bridget Liszewski

KJ = Kat Jetson

VA = Valerie Anne

/ indicates that two or more people are talking at the same time

VA: Welcome to Feminist Thrilljoys, a podcast where three women take a break from smashing the patriarchy to chat about the feminist-y things they love.  I’m one of your hosts, Valerie Anne.

BL: I’m Bridget Liszewski.

KJ: And I’m Kat Jetson.  Hellooo ladies.

VA: Helloooo!

BL: I feel like it’s been awhile.

VA: I know/

KJ: /It has been.  For two episodes, we were like back to back.  Boom, here we are.  And then we’re like no, we have things to do.

BL: Yeah, sorry/

KJ: /Reality set in.

VA: Yeah.  Which is why we, in the start, didn’t promise week because we knew that that was impossible.

KJ: I think that’s impossible for even the best of podcasters that do that and that’s their only job, so.

VA: Yeah.

KJ: And you know, they sit in a fancy little studio with mics, with pantyhose in front of their mics [laughter].  Maybe we could just put like a teeny little tiny footsy pantyhose…

VA: Little American Girl nylons on there. [laughter]

KJ: Yeah, let’s do that.

BL: We’re already to places I never thought we’d be.  [laughter] Discussing…

VA: Tiny pantyhose?  You never thought we’d get there? [laughter]

KJ: I honestly didn’t think the word pantyhose would ever come up in my life again, ever.  [laughter] Doesn’t seem necessary.  Do you remember when people used to buy…like, wear them/

BL: /The eggs/

KJ: /The egg!  Why egg? [laughter]

BL: I remember my mom having to wear them to work, and being like those seem awful.  She used to get so dressed up for work.  It was nuts.

KJ: Yeah.

BL: I wear things like sweatpants. [laughter]

KJ: Pajamas from the previous evening.  Well I want to do some research to find out about that egg.  Now it’s all I can think about.  Someone talk about something else so I’m not thinking about the wasteful plastic egg. [laughter]

VA: Yeah, let’s get into the newsy notesy things. 

KJ: Alright.

BL: So the first thing I wanted to mention was the new cover of Vanity Fair that features Lena Waithe/

VA: /Yeah, yeah/

BL: /I thought it was super cool.

VA: It’s so cool.

BL: It’s the first cover under the new big Vanity Fair new editor, Radhika Jones.  I don’t know, I’m not probably saying her name right.  So Jacqueline Woodson interviewed Lena Waithe and then they had photographs by Annie Leibovitz.  I don’t know.  It was just rad and I was super excited about it. [laughs]

KJ: Yeah, absolutely/

VA: /The photos were really good too, they were so cute and sweet.  I loved it.

KJ: Does anyone know why they have a new editor?

BL: No.

KJ: OK.  I was just curious.  It used to be a…a guy, and…

BL: Oh, I thought you were going to tell us.

KJ: No no no.  I don’t.  I don’t have an answer.  I don’t have an answer about the egg for the pantyhose, or the Vanity Fair editor.

VA: Just so many questions for us today, Kat.  So many things to ponder.

KJ: Just throwing things out there, not doing any research whatsoever.  [laughter] Just throwing out questions in hopes that other people will do my job and answer these questions.

BL: I was like leaning forward towards the screen.  You’re like “Do you know why they have a new editor?”  I’m like “No, why?”.  [laughter] I think I saw something that said he like stepped down, or I don’t know…yeah I don’t know the reason.

KJ: The previous editor had crazy hair.  Just take a look at his editor photo, it was just like Flock of Seagulls. [laughter] Anyhow, just curious.  OK, well.  Good.

BL: Anyway, the article was really good.  I don’t know.  I really like Lena Waithe.  For people who don’t know, she was the first black woman to win a comedy writing Emmy for that Thanksgiving episode of Master of None, which was amazing. 

VA: It was a masterpiece, is what that was.

BL: And it proved that Angela Bassett like never ages. [laughter]

VA: That’s true.

KJ: We were just talking about this.  We went to the movies, a bunch of us went to the movies, and there was a preview with her.  And a friend leaned over and was like [whispering] “She never ages”.

BL: She doesn’t.

VA: No, it’s true.  She looks amazing.

BL: In that Thanksgiving episode, when they flashed back to like way early in it, I was like oh, do they have someone else playing her?  And I was like nope, it’s Angela Bassett [laughter] because she doesn’t age.  It’s like magic.

KJ: Yeah.

BL: Anyway, I think…oh but anyways, just really cool for them to feature Lena Waithe.  She’s obviously like coming up big.  I know she has a show on Showtime called The Chi, and then I think they said in the article she’s going to have a new series on TBS or something.  She’s going to be in Ready Player One, from Steven Spielberg.

KJ: Oh wow.

BL: Yeah, so.  With Hannah John-Kamen from Killjoys is in that.

KJ: I feel like everybody in the universe is in Ready Player One.  Every like little character and actor…just throw everybody in there. [laughter]

BL: I really like too…do you guys ever listen to Cameron Esposito’s podcast?  Lena Waithe was just on that.

VA: I haven’t listened to Lena Waithe’s episode, but I’ve listened to Queery.

BL: Yeah.  I saw that Lena Waithe was on it, and I was like I love her, I’m going to listen.  On the podcast, Lena Waithe was talking about…cause they were talking about her style and everything.  How her publicists basically have…she’s gotten to a point where when she goes to do photo shoots and stuff, they don’t expect to dress her in more feminine-type stuff.  She was saying the next thing I think I need to work on or have my publicist say is I don’t want to be told to smile in photos.  I had just listened to that the day before the Vanity Fair cover came out.  And she’s not smiling on the cover, I was like Ah!

KJ: Yeah.  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

VA: That’s cool.

KJ: [mocking tone] You’d look so much prettier if you smiled. [laughter]  Shut up.

VA: [murdery voice] You’d look so much prettier if you were dead.  [laughter]  Sorry, that escalated quickly.  [laughter]  Living in New York, you hear that a lot.  People like to shout “Smile!” at you when you’re walking down the street a lot, and it’s very frustrating.  So, I have feelings about it.

KJ: Wow.  I don’t think anyone has ever told me to smile more, so I don’t know what I would do.

VA: Well, I’m usually smiling.  So the fact that I’ve even heard it is very frustrating. [laughter]

KJ: Right/

BL: /Yeah.  Anyway, that’s all I had to say about…sorry, go ahead.

KJ: So the next thing I wanted to talk about.  Kaitlyn Alexander, who you may know in the Carmilla series, has a campaign still going.  The Marry Your Gays shirt.  So, the trope is the Bury Your Gays.  People talk about that.  They thought it was a good idea, Marry Your Gays.  It was just a temporary campaign, and then they redid it a few months ago, and it was done.  But now, they recently posted that they found out that someone was stealing their designs, which has been happening a lot in fandom.  So that’s a bummer.  But, now that campaign is just going to be going on forever.  So you can still get your Marry Your Gays shirt and sweatshirt.  It’s through Represent, so I guess you could just Google that.

VA: Yeah, that’s awesome.  I’m going to be talking about Represent later for another campaign I want to talk about also sells through Represent, which I had never heard of until very recently but I think that’s very cool.

KJ: Yeah, and then the Buffy/

BL: /That was where Sarah Michelle Gellar, yeah, did hers through there.  And I think Stephen Amell has done a whole bunch through there.  Like all the ones he’s done.

VA: The F Cancer ones?

BL: Yeah, he’s done his through there.  Yeah, like the Sinceriously ones and all that stuff.

VA: Oh right, nice.

KJ: And it’s a really bold shirt.  Marry Your Gays is very large, and then there’s this teeny tiny logo of them at the bottom, bowtie.  It’s super cute.  But I did want to mention that too.  It’s so sad.  So many fan artists have been noticing that their art is just being straight up swiped, stolen, and put on other webpages.  Especially if proceeds go to a…oh my God, what’s the word.  Charity.  That’s the big word I couldn’t think of. 

VA: Very sad.

KJ: The only place that you can buy them is through their website.

BL: Cool.

KJ: [singing] Cool!

BL: Oh, I wanted to mention that Into the Badlands is a show that Valerie and I are obsessed with.

VA: Yeah!

BL: Seasons 1 and 2 of it are now on Netflix, because Season 3 premieres on April 22nd at ten o’clock on AMC.  I know a lot of people hear AMC, and you’re like “old white dude shows or zombies”.

VA: That’s it!  But that’s not true.

BL: It’s not true.  I remember hearing about this show Into the Badlands when it came out, and it was supposed to have cool martial arts stuff.  I was like, oh that’s great.  I saw Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, I thought it was really pretty, but I don’t really care about watching a show about it.  [laughter]  Valerie, and my friend Taylor was like you guys need to watch Into the Badlands, the ladies on it are awesome.  I was like…naaahh, I still don’t know if I’ll be into it.  But I trusted Taylor and I watched.  And then I watched the first episode and it was like all dudes. [laughter] Valerie, you counted how many minutes it took or something?

VA: It was like 18 minutes in or something, and there was not a woman in sight.  The only time they had even mentioned a woman was to joke about sleeping with her.  I was like [makes disgusted by the patriarchy sound].

KJ: What were you like?

VA: [repeats disgusted by the patriarchy sound] [laughter]

BL: I don’t want to say too much, because I might end up talking about this show later as something.  The pilot is all dudes, and then episode two they’re like JUST KIDDING.

VA: Yeah, it’s a bait and switch.  I guess I can wait to talk about this when you do it.  I watched the pilot, decided not to watch this show.  And then when Taylor was like “No guys, really…watch this show”.  I was like “I don’t want to”.  And she was like “Trust me!”.  And then after episode two I was like “Oh, you were right.  You were correct”.   And also, there are only six episodes per season?

BL: No, there’s six in season one.  There’s ten in season two.  And then I think they got an increased order for season three.

VA: Which is amazing.  But my point is you can totally catch up by April 22nd.

BL: Yeah, so.  And they just put Season 2 onto Netflix.

VA: Do it!

BL: Valerie always jokes that they did the pilot as a way to sell the show to AMC, that it was gonna be this big drama with all the dudes.  And then they got it sold and then they made, and they were like just kidding.  The women on the show…what they do in heels, is like amazing.  Badass fighting, all this wire work.  The guys are all awesome too, but the women on the show are so cool.  Kat, there is an amazing redhead that is called The Widow, and she is just…the most badass/

VA: /You would love her so much.

KJ: Oh no!  Wait, what’s that.

BL: There’s a redhead on the show, like the most badass one.  And her name is The Widow.  So I guess what I should explain is it’s set in some weird futuristic, I don’t know even what.  There’s the badlands, there’s different badlands within the badlands/

VA: /It’s like post-apocalyptic/

BL: Yeah, and there’s Barons.  Different Barons, and they’re all fighting each other. They have their armies and stuff like that.  The one Baron is this widow.  She’s The Widow, and she’s just amazing.  She’s out to take out all the dudes, and oh…it’s awesome.

KJ: I mean so basically another redheaded widow.

BL: Oh she’s amazing.

KJ: So I could just say Dani Fucking Kind right now.

VA: Yes!


VA: That might be a record for how long it took us to say Dani Fucking Kind in an episode. [laughter]

KJ: Thank you, OK.

BL: Yeah, so I’ll save…I didn’t really write good notes or anything.  Like I said, I probably will end up doing this because…I did see the Season 3 premiere.  I got sent a screener for it, and it was…I think it’s gonna be another good season, so I’ll probably talk about this at some point.  So go watch on Netflix.  And then the other thing I wanted to just do a follow up to one of our earlier episodes when I talked about Goodnight Stories for Rebel Girls.  They have a podcast that they’re doing now, if you want to go and listen.  I think they’ve only released like three episodes or something, but they’re only like 15-18 minutes long and they just do one of the women from the book.  They read it again like the fairytale, but it’s just obviously more information because in the book it’s just a one page story.  I’ve listened to I think two out of the three.  I think they’re interesting.  Like I said, they’re just real quick listens, so.

KJ: Is someone else reading the stories, or the people that created?

BL: They have different people every time.

KJ: Interesting.  OK.  I wanted to just bring up really quickly.  There are these sweet enamel pins that Demons and Donuts.  I spell it out.  Demons and Donuts, but donuts not spelled with that o-u-g-h-t or whatever.  [laughter]  It’s d-o-n-u-t-s.  Are making these enamel pins, and if you’re a fan of Wynonna Earp and Carmilla, they have some really intricate enamel pins.  They’re super fun.  I ordered one, I ordered the Doc Holliday one.  It was so sweet, she sent me the Wynonna one as a gift and said that she loves our podcast, so.  She did not ask me to do this.  I just wanted to because she also just released a new one today, and it’s Dominque from Wynonna Earp, but her character in Carmilla.  It’s so sweet.

VA: I saw that on Twitter.  It’s beautiful.

KJ: Mhmm.  So I wanted to give a shoutout.  If you want some quality enamel pins from a really sweet human.

BL: Yeah, that Doc Holliday one is so good.

KJ: Isn’t it?  It looks…I can’t believe that people can capture so much in like teeny…I don’t know, an inch and a half or something?  I don’t know if inch and a half means anything to people outside of America.  I don’t know centimeters, I’m sorry. Yeah, so.  @demonsanddonuts on Twitter.  DemonsandDonuts on Instagram.  Just demons and goddamn donuts. [laughter]

BL: We can put a link to them.

KJ: Yeah, that’d be sweet.

VA: And then next on our list, we have had lovely lovely humans transcribing all of our episodes.

KJ: This is so rad.

VA: It’s volunteer based, like they just wanted to do it.  Since we’ve started I was like, in my head, like this is something we should do.  I’ll just do it, but we then we got to be like three episodes, and I was like I’m not going to do it, am I?  And I was like feeling really guilty about it, but then people reached out to us and was like, can we help you do this?  And they have been.

KJ: Yeah. 

VA: And it’s amazing.

KJ: Yeah.  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

BL: I think about when I transcribe like a twenty minute interview, how long it can take you sometimes.  And for them to go/

VA: /Yeah!/

KJ: /Yes!/

BL: /And for them to go an hour plus, and with three of us talking at all different times, I can’t even.

VA: And usually over each other.  Yeah, they’re doing such a great job.  One of the reasons that I had even put it off is listening to my own voice just hurts my soul, and so I was like I don’t know if I’d emotionally be able to handle transcribing it and having to listen to my own voice over and over until I got the words right, so bless them for doing it.

KJ: Yeah, so incredibly sweet.  I’m with Bridget.  Transcribing fifteen minutes feels like four hours.  I can’t even believe that people are doing this for us.  Thank you so much.

BL: Yes, thank you.

KJ: Do you want to say who they are, Valerie?

VA: Yeah, we have Liz.  @earpnado on Twitter, which is a great name. [laughter] Also, Fiona, @CosplayFi has been helping us out too.  Episodes 1-4 are on right now, and I’m sure more will be to come.

KJ: And also I had an interview that I had done with the drummer from The Coathangers that I had just sitting on my desktop.  This is due so soon, I have to transcribe this, I have to do this.  So I reached out to Liz, and I’m like “Can I just pay you to do this?”.  [laughter] And she’s like “OK”.  So now, I’m just going to pay Liz to transcribe my stuff.

VA: That’s awesome.

BL: That’s awesome.

KJ: She did such a great job and she was done in a day.  And it was like an hour interview.  Thank you so much.

VA: That’s amazing.

KJ: So, it’s worth it for me.  Here.

BL: I might have to remember that when I’m doing my weekly interviews with Emily Andras, because Emily Andras talks like, very fast.  I’ve gotten pretty good at transcribing those.  Good to know Liz is out there [laughter]

KJ: Yeah. 

BL: Yes, but thank you.  The/

KJ: And then/

BL: /Oh sorry

KJ: I was just going to say the last thing we’re gonna bring up are just our reminder that all three of us will be at ClexaCon.  We’ll each be on various panels.  Bridget, do you want to talk about yours?

BL: Yeah, I mean we talked about them the last time.  They released the ClexaCon schedule since we last talked.

KJ: Four pages.  Very small font.

BL: I know.  I started entering ones I was interested in into a Google Calendar, and they were all overlapping, and I was getting so stressed.

VA: I’m gonna be running around like a loon during ClexaCon.  Just like darting in and out of panels. 

BL: I know, can you leave?  That’s what I started thinking.  Is it OK to duck out and into ones late?  What’s the etiquette on that?  Because there’s ones I want to see that my friends are doing, and they all overlap with like big feature panels.  It’s very stressful.  I am in my first one is on Friday at one o’clock.  The Responsibility of Media Makers panel.  That’s pretty early in the con.  Friday night, I’m hosting the big Wynonna Earp cast panel, that’s Friday at 5:30.  Kat has an Empowerment Through Fandom panel on Saturday at one pm.  And then Valerie and I are like, near the very end of the con on Sunday at four o’clock for the Wynonna Earp fans panel.

KJ: That’s gonna be fun.

BL: Unless things change, cause I know the schedule can change at anytime, so.

KJ: Good luck changing it after that.  I don’t know.  You’ve gotta lock that down.  That’s really stressful/

BL: /I don’t know how they plan all of that.  Like how they schedule that, and when people have to be doing…the stars have to be in their panels, doing the autographs and photos…

KJ: I totally forgot about photos too, like…I didn’t even look at…I couldn’t look at the schedule.  It really was too much, because it was color coding…I was like “I’m out, I’m out.  I’m just going to wing it, show up, and see what happens”.  I just want to make sure that my panel wasn’t in any of my friend’s sort of, panels.  Did they release times for photo ops and stuff too?

BL: It’s on that schedule, to the right.

KJ: Oh God.  I don’t even want to look. [laughter]

BL: I think they just have people available for blocks of time. 

KJ: Yeah.

BL: It’s all on there.

KJ: I bought a couple of photo ops.  I didn’t even realize that I bought a couple, I thought I bought one.  Then I looked at the receipt, I’m like…was I drunk when I bought the other one? [laughter]  After our Dani Kind interview, we’ve been video chatting instead of just Skype audio-ing with each other.  I think the video takes a lot of bandwidth or something, so we may need to next time not look at each other’s awesome faces?  [laughter] You let us know.  Fine listeners, is it annoying?  We’re trying.  Trying!

BL: Are you OK with some audio issues so that we can stare at each other’s faces? [laughter]

KJ: Worth it.  So, yeah, that’s it.  That’s the newsy notesy stuff.  I think we’ve covered that properly.  So I guess, oh my God, am I going to start now?  Is it me? It’s my turn isn’t it?

VA: Yeah, it’s you girl.  You got this.

KJ: [singing] Feminist Thrilljoys, fuck yeah. [laughter] 

VA: Yeah!

KJ: So, I’m talking about Kesha.  Kesha, like ketchup.  People still wanted to know how to say her name.  That’s how it was put out into the universe.  It’s Kesha, like ketchup. 

VA: Or on Glee they said key dollar sign ha! [laughter]

BL: Yeah, I remember that. I think I still watched Glee when that happened.  [laughter]

KJ: Oh my God, did they really?

VA: Yeah, the principal was trying to be hip, and he was like “I love that new song by key dollar sign ha”.  It was so funny.

KJ: Oh wow.  I’ll have you know, she was not even on my sea scroll list.  She was a late addition, and I think…I just got on a Kesha kick.  I was listening and I’m like no, she always makes me feel…early Kesha, which is very danceable poppy whatever, was always fun, and I always felt totally unapologetic for my love love love for Kesha because I was smiling. Dancing.  Her delivery of her songs sometimes is so ridiculous and over the top.  It seems really joyful to me.  It’s just fun.  Now recently, her most recent album, Rainbow, there’s a lot behind that.  It just makes you feel super empowered, you’re just like fuck yeah, Kesha. You’re just really happy for her success.  Especially after everything that’s gone one.  Which I’m going to get into.  I think, as with most pop music, it’s so easy to dismiss pop music.  Especially with Kesha, people were just like she’s just some sex obsessed kind of manufactured party girl writing some stupid vocal fry pop songs, you know?  And that’s just like such an endless double standard, you know.  Guys get to do that stuff and they’re celebrated.  Yeah, guys are talking about fuckin sixteen year olds or whatever, you know?  It’s not pop music, but I mean it’s just…Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, everything they talk about is just whatever.  Kesha does it and she’s just a whore.  I hate that.  I just hate it, hate it, hate it.  I pulled a quote, just because I thought it was a pretty great quote again.  In response to that, Kesha said “If men can do it, why can’t a woman do it?  I really feel one of my main reasons for being on this earth is to level the playing field just a little bit”.  And I don’t know, I think that’s realistic, you know?  She didn’t put down men or boys or whatever for their pop music, but she’s like no…this is me, and I’m gonna do it to.  So.  Fuck yeah.  Fuck yeah Kesha. [laughter]  It sounds like I’m ending, but I’m not.  Bridget, I don’t want to call you out, but do you know Kesha? [laughter]

BL: I do know Kesha!  I do know key dollar sign ha, thank you.  [laughter]

VA: Called out!

BL: Bridget imitating cool.  [laughter]

KJ: Oh man.  Cool.  Cool, cool.  Just out of total/

BL: /Tik Tok.  Tik Tok.

VA: Look at you. 

KJ: It’s great that you mention that, because one of the awesome facts about that song is that it was the best…I’m reading my notes here for this.  Best selling digital single in history, selling 16.5 million units.

VA: Fuck yeah indeed.

KJ: [incredulously] What?  Yeah.  OK, there’s a lot of things here.  She’s co-written every single one of her songs.  She has seven top ten singles. Yes.  She’s got a lot of things going for her that are…she has freckles, a lot of freckles.  Totally adorable.  At some point she had a gold tooth.  I fucking love that gold tooth, and for a second…if anyone knows me you think this is the craziest thing ever…I was like I’m gonna get a gold tooth. [laughter] Are you fucking crazy?  There’s no way.  There’s no way I would ever be able to rock that.  But, I really really liked it. [laughter] And she applies tons of glitter, which…yes.  And at some point, she references a gold Trans Am in like three of her songs, so that’s a lot to just unpack right off the bat, right?  [laughter]  We haven’t even gotten to the awesome feminist stuff yet.  She’s also written songs for a lot of other artists.  She wrote Till the End of the World, which is my favorite, and I also think the best Britney Spears song.  She’s written songs for Ariana Grande.  It wasn’t released, but still.  Miley Cyrus, so she’s got that talent.  She’s not just singing these songs that are written for her.  And I thought this was interesting, I did not know this, but her mom co-wrote a Dolly Parton song. [laughter].

VA: Are you serious?  That’s so badass.

BL: Stuff just keeps intersecting here.

KJ: Dolly, we have to talk about Dolly.  But the song she co-wrote was Old Flames Can’t Hold a Candle to You, which I don’t know, but apparently was a hit in 1980.  So, there you go.  What do you think?

BL: We’ll have to look it up.

VA: Didn’t she also sing background vocals for one of the songs she wrote before she was even famous?  Yeah, she did.  It was Right Round, Flo Rida.  There’s a female vocalist in that song, and it’s really good.  It wasn’t ever released who she was until after she got famous.  Now it says featuring Kesha if you’re looking at the song.  I’m pretty sure she co-wrote it, and also sang the tracks.  I remember when people were like, Tik Tok and all those songs were coming out, people were accusing her of sing talking.  Like oh, she can’t really sing, she has no talent.  And it was like, she’s doing this on purpose.  This is smart, she’s doing this.  This is an act.  You can’t have no talent and sing poorly and do well.  You have to have some amount of talent to be able to sing poorly…not sing poorly, she was sing talking in a way that worked.  If she didn’t have any talent, sing talking wouldn’t have worked.

KJ: Totally.  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

VA: And then when it got revealed that she was the background vocal on that song.  People were finally like, oh, maybe she can sing.  Just YouTube her singing acoustic, and you’ll know.  She’s very, very talented.  And now with Rainbow, everyone has opened their eyes I believe.

KJ: Right, and I think that’s also one of those things where you hear those songs, and then you’re like these are great, these are fun.  But then you, because of this album that’s out now where she’s really…she’s powerfully singing, you realize that she’s more of a rock.  She’s got more of a rock singer thing going on.  And I think that that works live.  Like when I saw her live, she played a lot of her sort of dance numbers. They didn’t…it wasn’t that good, you know, they didn’t make you feel as much.  Then she sang songs off her new album, and you’re like yes, this is where all that power comes from.  I love her.  I love her.  OK, so Kesha had, you know, her first two albums.  And then I guess you could call them her pop dance albums or whatever.  And then she checked herself into rehab, it was 2014.  If anyone was curious, she checked herself into rehab for an eating disorder.  Later that year, she sued her producer, which I don’t know if you ladies know about this guy.  So she sued him for…I Googled this, because I didn’t know all of it.  Sexual assault and battery, sexual harassment, gender violence, emotional abuse, and some stuff over her business recording contract.  This was before Time’s Up and Me Too, and I felt like she was out there.  Even though she had some support, I felt like she was out there on her own.  People were just dismissing her, just like oh Kesha, whatever.  Did you sort of get that sense too?  I felt…I genuinely felt for her.  This poor woman is out there alone.  I felt like no one was on her side. 

BL: Well because she was still beholden to make like six records or something with him?

KJ: Yeah.

VA: And if she didn’t, she couldn’t release music on her own.  She was stuck in this…like if she wanted to continue with her legal battle she couldn’t release more music that wasn’t for him.  So she was trapped and unable to make music, which was her whole medium and her whole life.  So, it really sucked.

KJ: And if she did, she had to work with her abuser, basically.

VA: Right, right.  Lose lose.

KJ: That went on forever.  And then, it was…the entire case was pretty much dismissed.  I don’t even think this is fully settled.  One of the things that is so frustrating, was that the statute of limitations ran out on the rape allegations.  You’re just like how repulsive and frustrating is that/

VA: /That’s fucking disgusting/

KJ: /Why is there a statute of limitations on that.  Like, literally, if you just get away with it for five years or whatever, then you’re good.

VA: That doesn’t make sense.  I will never understand the statute of limitations on sexual assault.  I’ve never heard any kind of reason that comes anywhere close to logic that makes sense.

KJ: Yeah.  And then she did have some, you know, support.  I know that after Kelly Clarkson had a writing credit of hers removed from a song with Dr. Luke.  And obviously she would lose money on that, so that was like sort of in solidarity.  I know Taylor Swift donated a certain amount of money for her legal funds.  This is something I did not know…when Adele won her BRIT Award, she thanked Kesha, and said it went out to Kesha, so.

VA: I didn’t know that either.

BL: I didn’t know that.  I love Adele.

KJ: And before this, I thought TV people would appreciate this, she was on an episode of Jane the Virgin.  Did either of you know that?

BL: I did.


BL: I watched that episode.


VA: I must’ve seen it, but I didn’t remember that. 

KJ: I’m sure it was a very minor part/

BL: /They’ve had lots of weird…Britney Spears was on there…

KJ: OK.  Yeah.  OK, so after…

BL: Wait, Valerie just played it really cool.  The Jane the Virgin reference, like. [laughter] You’re like, yeah I’m sure I’ve seen that episode. [laughter]

VA: Well, you don’t want to get me started on Jane the Virgin.  I literally watched the most recent episode this morning and was shouting in all caps about it all day.  You don’t want to start me on that.

BL: That’s why I was so alarmed by your nonchalance.

KJ: Alarmed!

VA: I’m trying to be cool Bridget.  I’m trying to imitate cool Bridget. [laughter]

BL: Yeah, I can never hide it I guess.

VA: I don’t want to steal Kat’s thing.  It’s her turn.  I’ll do Jane the Virgin I’m sure eventually.

KJ: You cut out just a little bit, and I thought you said gay the virgin.  And I was like, yeah! [laughter]

VA: It might as well be called Gay the Virgin right now, Kat.  There’s a lot going on.  [laughter]

BL: See!

VA: There were seven queer women in the last episode!  OK, nope.  I’m done.  See, this is why I didn’t start Bridget.

BL: Yeah, but you would’ve deprived us of that fun moment.  [laughter] C’mon.  Don’t deprive us.  Or our listeners.

VA: Anyways.  [clears throat] Kat, you were saying?

BL: Sorry Kat, if I stole your thunder.

KJ: You did not steal my thunder.  Absolutely not. Let’s all just celebrate anything, anything/

BL: /Gay the Virgin.

KJ: So, OK so the legal battle.  Honestly, I was looking for information on that, and it still seems like that’s kind of still going on.  I think, yeah.  For whatever reason, she’s obviously able to put out music, but I still think she’s somehow attached to that guy, which really sucks.  But her most recent album, Rainbow, it’s like she’s dance party girl.  Then she comes out with this song Praying, which is just I don’t know…I don’t know who she’s referencing, but it’s truly this song about forgiveness.  I just think that’s really powerful.  She could go through all of that and still kind of believe in forgiveness as a way to move forward.  It just seemed really empowering to me.  And then, there’s this song Woman, which basically the lyric is “I’m a motherfuckin woman”. [laughter]

BL: Yes.

KJ: Which is great.  Girls to the front, boys to the back.  It’s such a great song to sort of blast in your car and have fun with.

VA: Yeah.

KJ: And, you know, on top of everything else, she’s a super…she’s an ally for the LGBT community.  I like what she said about her sexuality.  She just said that she likes people.  She said “I wouldn’t say that I’m gay or straight.  I don’t like labeling things.” So I kind of just like, I just like people.  That’s a great way of putting it, right?

VA: I like that.

KJ: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

VA: Yeah, her new album was so good.  I remember going back and forth between crying and wanting to start a revolution, depending on the song. [laughter]

KJ: Yeah.  I saw her recently live.  The only time I’ve ever seen her, actually.  I was really moved.  I’m going to try not to get too sentimental.  I feel like…no I don’t feel like.  I teared up a little bit.  It did a lot for my heart.  Also at that show, some woman came up to me at some point and just straight up stared at me and was like “Hey, you want to be my baby daddy?”, and I didn’t know what that meant, but I just thought that was an experience.  [laughter]

BL: What?

VA: What?  That’s…interesting.  What did you say?  Are you a baby daddy and you haven’t told us?

KJ: [laughing] No, I’m not.  I was listening to Kesha with my girlfriend, and she said she saw her live and she said the best thing she ever heard at a concert was Kesha just saying “You know what would make this night better?  If someone poured glitter on my titties.” [laughter]  And someone did.  What I’m telling you, is that you should really go see Kesha live.  Because you’ll cry, and smile, and perhaps you’ll be a baby daddy when you leave.

BL: Bring glitter. [laughter]

VA: Quite the experience.  [laughter]

KJ: Oh man. So yeah, just in conclusion.  Kesha’s rad.  She’s super fun, incredibly talented.  I think she has a really firm grasp on what she’s trying to accomplish now.  Even though she may still be attached to that dude, it seems like she’s creating the music that she feels most comfortable with.  If nothing else, she’s fucking resilient.  She’s fun in her resiliency, I think so.  I love her.  I think she’s really strong.  Anyone that gets on Kesha, I’m not having it.  Finger wag. [laughter] Kesha fuckin Rose. 

VA: Fuck yeah.

KJ: So, I’m done.  All done, I bow. 

VA: That was great Kat, thank you/

BL: /Very good.  Excellent choice.

KJ: I thought so.  It seemed so obvious when I…I was like yeah, Kesha.  She’s great.

BL: And like you said, not enough was made when she was speaking out.  Imagine if she was bringing that out now, and they were like oh, just kidding you have to make all these more albums with him.  If that was right now, the outcry, the support she would get…yeah.

KJ: I feel like she was really alone in that.  I was heartbroken. You’d see images of her crying in the courthouse, and…I just want to wrap my arm around Kesha, hug her, tell her it’s gonna be OK.  I don’t know if that would be true [laughter] I’d try though.  I’d try to convince her.  But yeah, I do.  I love her.  And equally.  Dance music and that sort of rock music.  I’m so into it.  I have a great time listening to Kesha.  [singing] Kesha.  [laughter] Oh my gosh, it’s time for you guys to talk about the thing that you’re going to talk about as a power duo [makes two punching-ish noises].

VA: The Bridget and Valerie crossover event! [laughter]

KJ: I cannot wait for you to explain all of the hashtags that you’re going to explain.

VA: OK, so this week Bridget and I are going to team up to talk about the women of the CW DC TV universe.  So, specifically Supergirl and Legends of Tomorrow

BL: OK, I just panicked.  I was like am I gonna have to talk about Arrow and The Flash? [laughter]

VA: No, I am going to touch on them a little bit, just because Sara…and like the crossovers.  Don’t worry, you don’t have to know about those ones.  But yes, specifically Legends of Tomorrow and Supergirl because we love them very much, and Kat has no idea what we’re talking about ever, so we’re gonna try to help her understand some of the random/

KJ: /Yes, please/

VA: /She’s picked up and she’s seen people shouting about along the way.

KJ: I can’t tell you how I’ve waited for this.  I’m waiting for someone in one concentrated something to explain this all to me.  So I’m going to sit here and smile, and take it in, and ask questions.  Go on.

VA: Where do you want to start Bridget?

BL: I think Supergirl.  I did watch Arrow and The Flash, but I have since quit them because it was just, no.  I couldn’t take it anymore, so.

VA: A lot of men.

BL: I have vague knowledge of those people.  I do OK when they have the big crossovers.  If I would’ve had to talk to them today, that’s why I panicked. 

VA: Don’t worry, we can start with Supergirl. [laughter]  I think I might’ve talked about this before, but I’ve loved Supergirl from before it even aired.  I was lucky enough to see the pilot at PaleyFest, and then I saw the pilot twice at New York Comic Con, so technically I saw it three times before it aired for real.  I was obsessed.  Then the one episode aired, and then it was Halloween, and I dressed as Kara Danvers for Halloween because I was so obsessed with the first episode of Supergirl.

BL: We need that picture.

KJ: Yeah!

VA: Yeah, I can send you that.  It’s actually my Autostraddle author profile picture.  I’ll send you one.  It was so unlike, especially since at the time I’m pretty sure Legends hadn’t started yet.  Shows like Arrow and The Flash were still on.  Arrow especially is so dark and gritty, and it can be great, but it was…

BL: Ugh, man pain, a lot of man pain/

VA: /Supergirl was just so…Supergirl started on CBS, so it wasn’t even the same network.  But it was still like the superhero/vigilante shows I was watching were a lot of dark and gritty and like, taking themselves very seriously.  Then Kara Danvers came on like, hey guys, I’m here to smile and be cute and also save the world, PS.  One of my favorite things that Kara Danvers did differently, when I realized how different she would be…she loves her powers.  She wants to share the fact that she has them with people.  She wanted to build a team of friends to help her.  She wasn’t…she didn’t act like it was this burden that she had.  I’ve seen shows be able to handle that well.  Even Jessica Jones, like I love what they’ve done.  Jessica doesn’t love that she has powers the way that Kara does, but Kara…the whole show was so light.  Even when she was saving her sister from an airplane crash, she was so proud of herself and so excited about it.  Even when people were telling her you can’t, this is not safe, this is not help…she was like no, now I know what I want to do.  I want to help people.  She’s so determined in that.  The show has lost it along the way at times, but it always comes back to Kara being so full of hope and optimism.  It’s so refreshing to see, especially now.  I feel like we need all of that optimism.  We need someone to tell us that we can be strong, and we can have hope even when things are really shitty.

KJ: Can I ask a question right now?

VA: Of course.

KJ: So, her human name is Kara Danvers.  Is that what you’re saying?  Can we start with that?

BL: She like needs the whole…/

VA: /Oh sure, OK.  So once upon a time, there was a little alien baby called Kara Zor-El.  And her planet was exploding, so her parents sent her on a little pod down to earth, where she was supposed to take care of her baby cousin, Kal-El.  Her pod got knocked off course.  [laughter]

KJ: Very much like Superman.

VA: Yes, but when she got down to earth, Kal-El was Clark Kent already.  He had already grown up, time had passed.  So he was already Superman.  So she didn’t need to take care of him, which was her original purpose.  So she’s this 12 year old girl on earth, and she has no purpose, and she has these powers.  So she got adopted by the Danvers family, which was made up of a Mom and a Dad, and a sister, Alex.  So she kept her first name, so she was Kara Danvers.

BL: She’s Superman’s cousin.


VA: Yes.  Eliza Danvers was her mother, and she’s one of the best TV moms in the history of TV moms.  I love her very much.  But they decided that she should kind of keep her powers on the DL.  She was young, and they didn’t want her to be a spectacle.  She had these glasses that helped tamp down her super vision, and she kind of learns to be a human starting as a teenager in the United States.  Which was awkward and tough, but…so then she grew up to be an assistant to this woman that I believe Bridget likes a little bit, Cat Grant.  You’re a Cat Grant fan, right?

KJ: I do like Cat Grant, but…

VA: We haven’t gotten to your favorite yet, don’t worry.  [laughter]

KJ: She’s like yeah…

BL: Who was Calista Flockhart in the TV show.

KJ: OK, so keeping in the similar vein of Superman, which always just seemed more joyful.  That’s why Superman’s my favorite superhero.  He’s not like brooding, except for now the new one, whatever.  What’s his name.

BL: Henry Cavill. 

KJ: Oh God.  [laughter] But generally, OK.  Go on.

VA: Yeah, so she works at this media company, and she’s Cat Grant’s assistant.  Cat always calls her the wrong name at first, and is kind of like mean to her and bullying her.  But then when Supergirl kind of comes out, Kara starts to sort of stand up for herself a little bit more, and Cat starts giving her advice.  They have a really cool women mentor relationship, and it’s very…that was…the whole first season was Cat Grant heavy, and she was very badass.  When Cat is the one who gave this flying person who saved the plane the name Supergirl, and Kara stormed into her office and was like “Supergirl? Why wouldn’t you call her Superwoman? Why are you calling her girl?”.  And Cat was like “Why do you have a problem with the word girl?  She’s like, I’m a girl.  If you think there’s something wrong with the word girl, maybe the problem is with you, not the word.”  Which I thought was very cool. The girl vs woman conversation was very cool.  Yeah, so then we can fast forward to this most recent season, where…or I guess.  I don’t know.  There’s so much to tell you Kat.  [laughter]

KJ: No, no, no.

BL: So, basically she becomes Supergirl in the first season, because she’s forced into it because she has to save her sister.  In the process, she finds out that her sister actually is working with this agency called the DEO.  They work with the aliens and stuff that are on…they’re like a secret government agency, which Kara didn’t know that Alex was working there.  Kara as Supergirl starts working with the DEO.  Meanwhile she’s trying to become this reporter at CatCo, and working under Cat Grant.  So, that’s just like the whole deal.  And then in Season 2 the show moved from CBS to the CW, and Calista Flockhart didn’t want to film in Vancouver, so…Cat Grant isn’t on the show as much.  But it’s still like Kara working as this reporter, and then meanwhile helping the DEO on all these missions.


VA: And it’s cool because she gets to work with her sister, and Alex is…the relationship between Kara and Alex one of the best through lines through the whole show.  It’s the love story of the show, I think.  When it’s at it’s best.  When it’s at its best it’s focusing on Kara and Alex working together, helping each other, supporting each other because one of them will be having a hard time and the other one will pick them up or vice versa.  They’re always swapping back and forth ways to help each other, and they’re both very different.  They’re both strong in different ways, they’re both smart in different ways, and they both have different solutions to similar problems.  They kind of balance each other out when they’re working together.  And it also shows what happens when they’re not working together and how hard that is on both of them, and how they have to keep realizing that they need each other.

BL: I think it’s interesting too because Alex is the older sister and she doesn’t have the powers.  A lot of times I feel like we see the older sister has the power, and so I think Alex sometimes struggles with wanting to protect Kara, but then realizing oh no, wait…this is Supergirl.

KJ: Oh, wait.  This is Supergirl. [laughter]

VA: And Alex is special to me especially because she comes out as a lesbian in the second season.  She met this cop called Maggie Sawyer, and she started to realize that she had feelings for her.  So she had this coming out arc, and she…she’s a little bit older.  She’s in her mid to late twenties, and her coming out arc I thought was really, really well done.  We don’t see a ton of like, later in life coming out stories on TV.  It’s like a lot of teenagers, which is great, and hopefully a lot of people are coming out when they’re younger now, but I thought that Alex…she talks about how she hadn’t really thought about it too much.  There were things that made her wonder, but mostly she just wasn’t…she never really had any connections with men in the ways that she was supposed to.  She kind of tried not to think about why, and then…until she met Maggie, and she was like OK.  So all of these things in my life make more sense now, like the sleepovers that I had when I was younger, the feelings that I was having that freaked one of my friends out…kind of all of these…these moments in her life that now kind of make sense.  I found her whole thing very relatable.  She tried to ask Maggie out, but Maggie wasn’t ready to date someone who was just coming out, and so there was that whole struggle, which I thought was really interesting.  Alex kind of getting her heart broken right out the gate was really hard to watch, but like very well done, I think.  Then eventually Alex and Maggie do date, and that’s where one of the words that you know Kat, is Sanvers. [laughter]

KJ: Oh my God, I get it now.

VA: So Sanvers is Maggie Sawyer and Alex Danvers, Sanvers.  That was their ship name.  And they had a beautiful, epic romance.

BL: They did/

VA: /And it was lovely.  They both worked together because Maggie was on the police force, and she found out that Maggie was part of the DEO, so she worked with team Supergirl.  They were fighting crime side by side.  It was very cool and sweet.  Maggie helped her deal with coming out, and it was all great.  And then their breakup was very hard to watch, but it was also I think very well handled, because I feel like usually on shows breakups are just this huge someone cheated…or someone is breaking up with them for no reason.  Someone is usually villainized in a breakup.  For them they just came to an impasse because they realized Alex wanted kids and Maggie didn’t.  It was just something they couldn’t get past.  They tried, and it lasted a few episodes where they talked about this thing they didn’t want to change each other and they didn’t want one to end up resenting the other.  It was mutual in the sense that they both still really loved each other, but it was this…it was an impossible thing that you can’t get over.  You can’t get past that.  It’s a deal breaker, you know.

KJ: [singing] Sanvers, I get it now. [laughter]

BL: So the two actresses though that play Maggie and Alex, they were both really cute offscreen about the relationship and really loved the relationship, and wanted to make sure…again, I should probably just sit and let Valerie talk about how great Chyler Leigh is off screen. 

VA: Oh yeah, Chyler is one of the words that you know Kat, right?

KJ: I do. [laughter] I thought it was Shyler, but yes.

VA: Yeah, a lot of people I think do, but it’s Chyler.  She was on Grey’s Anatomy.  A lot of people still know her as Lexie Grey first.  My dad still calls her Lexie, [laughter] which works out because Alex and Lexie are close enough that I always know who he’s talking about.

BL: They did that on purpose, just to confuse him. [laughter]

VA: My dad always calls an actor by whatever the first role he knew them…he still calls Amy Acker, Fred.  From Angel.  Even though my dad loved Person of Interest, he’s watched so many things that she’s been on since then, but she’s always Fred whenever he’s talking about her.  Anyways, Chyler Leigh is so great.  Very supportive vocally of the LGBT community.  She’s just done some awesome stuff.  I met her briefly.  Her husband is in a band called East of Eli.  So I met her briefly after a concert of theirs.  She was just so kind.  She stayed til 4 am to meet people.  We got kicked out of a bar.  She was doing a meet and greet in a bar and the bar needed to close, so she was like “We’re takin it to the streets!”.  We literally stood on the sidewalk with her, and it was raining.  She had just travelled from…she had like a 12 hour travelling day.  But she was smiling the whole time and she took time with every single person.  She’s a very, very kind, giving of herself person.  So I was very glad that she was playing this role of Alex Danvers.

BL: Yeah, as someone who tries to be a good LGBTQ ally myself, I look at someone like Chyler Leigh, who is a straight person.  She’s very in love with her husband in real life, you know she makes no bones about that.  And they’re very, very cute. [laughs]

VA: They really are.

BL: When she got this role of Alex, I think when they told her this was the direction they were going to take Alex…she’s always, like Valerie said, made it her mission to really listen and hear the importance of the character and the story that she has been given this responsibility to tell.  I don’t know, I just always…as someone who is trying to be a good ally, she is someone who I always kind of look at and pay attention…I pay close attention to her and the way that she carries herself, and presents herself, and listens.  I think listening is a big thing.  Um, yeah.  I look at her offscreen as kind of a bit of a role model.  Someone who does a really good job of being an ally that I would like to emulate, so.

KJ: Bridget, Bridget.

BL: Yes.

KJ: I love you.

BL: Oh, thanks.

KJ: I mean that, sincerely.  [sweetly] You are like the best, sweetest, superest ally.  Better than Chyler Leigh. 

BL: Thank you. [laughter]

KJ: I don’t know her enough, but really.  Yeah.  OK, I’m done fangirling over Bridget now. [laughter]

VA: I agree, for what it’s worth.  You’re an excellent ally.  The fact that you even care about wanting to be a better ally makes you the best ally. 

KJ: Yeah.  Yeah, yeah, yeah/

BL: /Oh, thank you.  We’re not on video anymore and I’m blushing.  [laughter]

KJ: It’s true though, every time I talk about Bridget.  I’m just like fuckin Bridget, man.

BL: You guys are gonna make me cry.

KJ: Don’t!  Don’t. 

VA: We can make Bridget blush even more, because you know who it’s time to talk about?

BL: I was gonna say, oh my God.

KJ: It’s a sweatshirt, right?

VA: It’s the owner of the sweatshirt…well the wearer of the sweatshirt, Lena Luthor.  [laughter] 

KJ: I can’t wait to find out about this character because I’m fascinated.

VA: Bridget!  Bridget, tell me all about Lena Luthor.  Who is Lena Luthor?  Tell me.

BL: Who is she?  I don’t know.  She is Kara Danvers’ very best gal pal.  They’re best friends.  If you didn’t know that they were best friends, they will tell you that they’re best friends like five times an episode.  They want to make it very clear to you, the audience, that they’re friends.  Friends.

VA: Kat, I have a question.  Have you ever sent your friend so many flowers that it filled up their whole office.

KJ: Never.

VA: Have you ever bought an entire company, just so your friend could keep their job?

KJ: No.  Not this life. [laughter]

VA: I was just checking if this was normal gal pal behavior.


BL: And I think that something I want to make clear, and I know Valerie feels the same way…we both love Supergirl.  We come from a place where we love it, so anything…but I also think it’s OK to criticize things that you love.  So any criticism that I have here…and I do this when I write about the show as well, I always try to keep in mind…I’m not gonna hide behind the anonym…like the anonym….I can’t say that word.  Being anonymous on the internet.  I’m not gonna hide behind that.  Everything that I would say I feel like I would say to the writers if I was talking to them.  So that’s my disclaimer before I start.

VA: Obviously I just spent 30 minutes talking about all the things I love about Supergirl, I do very much love this show.  Like you said, if I didn’t love this show, I would just be like OK I’m done with this show if I didn’t like something about it.  I love so much of this show, that the little things that I think that they could be doing better, I feel like it’s important to talk about.  A little bit.  We’re gonna touch on it, but yeah.  We’re not gonna go on like a rant right now.

BL: So Lena Luthor is, Lex Luthor, that you know from Superman.  It’s Lex’s sister.  She joined the show in season two.  She’s the CEO of L-Corp, and in season two, her mother Lillian Luthor was kind of like the big bad for that season. 


BL: So she and Kara become best friends [laughter]

VA: Lena Luthor is good.  She changed Luthor Corp to L-Corp to try to distance herself from the Luthor name.  She wants to prove that not all Luthor’s are bad.  She wants to show that the technology that her brother developed could be used to do good things.  She’s truly on the side of good.

BL: Yeah, and I hope that…I will say that I hope they keep her that way.  I feel like inevitably it’s just gonna…I hope they don’t go the easy way of making her bad.  Please just keep her good/

VA: /She struggles with it, which is I think a really interesting thing.  When people assume you’re a monster for your whole life, it would be so easy to just be like fine.  It’s the story of Elphaba in Wicked.  People called her wicked and then finally she was like “You know what, fine.  I’ll play this part for them”.  It would be so easy for her to give in and be like fine, if they don’t expect anything from me anyways I won’t do it.  But so far she’s been succeeding in her struggle to stay good and prove everyone wrong/

BL: /And I think that’s far more interesting.  I think that and her dealing with that/

KJ: /Definitely yeah/

BL: /is way more interesting than if they just go and do the expected and make her evil like her brother and her mother and everybody.

KJ: How many seasons has this been on then?  How many seasons have they like followed through with her being good?

BL: This is the third season right now, so.

KJ: Oh, OK.  OK. I thought this show was on forever/

BL: /Yeah, she’s been on a season and a half, about.  She was only made a regular this year.  But yeah, she’s played…I don’t want to mess up her name.  Katie McGrath [pronounced McGraw] [laughter]

VA: Katie McGrath.

BL: An Irish actress.

VA: Yeah, I thought it was Katie McGrath for a long time, because that is how it looks on paper.  But she’s super Irish, so it’s Katie McGrath [pronounced McGraw].

KJ: Wow.  I thought it was McGrath as well.

VA: There’s a very cool YouTube video of like a supercut of her saying her name a bunch of times.  [laughter]  It sounds like [Irish accent] Katie McGrath [pronounced McGraw][laughter]

KJ: So was it a…super…cut? [laughter]

VA: Ohhhh.

KJ: Ohhhhh boy.  I’ll just put myself on mute. [laughter]

BL: But no like, so Lena is just…as we said she’s very Irish.  The actress, and they have made her…obviously Lena Luthor is not Irish.  But as every episode has gone one, Katie McGrath’s accent just comes out.  I feel like there’s episodes this season where she’s just like fuck it, Lena’s gonna be Irish. [laughter]

VA: I have a theory about her too.  I think she does a similar thing that Into the Badlands did.  I think she waits until the ink dries on her contract, and then she’s like goodbye American accent.  Here I am.  Because she did the same thing on Slasher.  The first episode of the show Slasher, she had a perfect American accent.  And then as the seasons went on, it was like what’s happening to your voice?  I mean it’s delightful, it’s wonderful to watch. It’s just funny that that’s kind of like, her thing.  She eventually just gives up and just does her.

KJ: [Irish accent] Super lass. [laughter]

BL: So it’s really fun when it comes out. 

KJ: That would be amazing if that’s what she was called from here on out, you know? [laughter]  OK, go on.

BL: So anyways, she’s the CEO of L-Corp or whatever.  I don’t know.  I just, I love her so much.  I don’t know what it is.  She’s powerful, and she’s super smart.  She just has this like…[Lenasexual sigh] she like commands the screen when she’s on it in this way.  I don’t know, it just brings up feelings in all kinds of ways.  [laughter]

VA: This is why we call Bridget a Lenasexual.

KJ: Uh huh, uh huh.

BL: I was going to say.  Valerie…we were talking about it the one time, and I was like you know.  I don’t…I don’t like…I’m married, I have a husband.  I obviously think that, I don’t think…I think everyone is attracted to like the whole spectrum, whatever.  I totally believe in that.  But Valerie was like “It’s OK Bridget”.  I said, I was like….it’s like with Tim Rozon from Wynonna Earp.  I was like a lot of lesbians are like OK, I don’t like men, but Tim Rozon, man. 

KJ: It’s true.

BL: Yeah, and I was like…Valerie, cause this was after…we’ll get to the sweatshirt.  Valerie was like Bridget, it’s OK, we know.  You’re just a Lenasexaul.  And I was like [Lenasexual gasp] it makes so much sense Valerie! [laughter] 

KJ: Amazing.

BL: Yeah, I was like…yes!

KJ: Coining terms.

BL: I know Katie McGrath is like number one on Tumblr, whatever.  People are obsessed with Katie McGrath, and people send me Katie McGrath gifs because they know I like Lena Luthor.  And I’m like yeah, she’s fine, but it’s something about just Lena/

KJ: /Right.  Yeah, yeah, yeah/

BL: /Like I’m like it’s just Lena Luthor for me.  I don’t know.  It’s like the power or something, I don’t know what it is.

KJ: That’s how I feel about Alyson Hannigan with Willow Rosenberg.  People are like Alyson Hannigan!  I’m like no, no, no.  Willow. Rosenberg.  She’s lovely, I’m sure, but yeah.  I don’t care about American Pie Alyson Hannigan.

BL: Right! So Valerie has to coin a fun name for you that you can hashtag yourself with.  Like Lenasexual.

KJ: That sounds great.

BL: I’m sure she’ll come up with something.  I have faith in Valerie’s wittiness. 

VA: Oh boy.  No pressure. [laughter]

BL: So Lena…it’s kind of absurd, because she wears stuff to work that you would never see a normal business woman wearing.  These off the shoulder dresses with huge amounts of cleavage and all kinds of ridiculous outfits.

VA: She looks like she’s on the way to a gala half the time.  [laughter]

BL: I’m not complaining about it, it’s fine.  It’s a little absurd, but.

KJ: Yeah.

VA: How else would you know that she’s in charge if she wasn’t wearing five inch heels, Bridget?

KJ: How else?

BL: Who wears those off the…there’s been looks in recent episodes where it’s like these off the shoulder dresses where it’s like a lot of collarbone, and all this kind of stuff.  [laughter]

VA: It’s a great collarbone, Bridget.  If you had that collarbone you’d show it off too. [laughter]

KJ: Is it the left or the right one? [laughter]

BL: So there was an episode earlier this season, where Lena was like, you know, once again being questioned.  People thought she was going to be bad and she had to prove herself.  There’s a guy that’s on this season that they’re fighting against.  I don’t know his purpose other than to be the biggest dick in the world [laughter] that always seems to have it out for Lena.  She was just really down, and she was at the other girl’s house, was like letting her stay over.  They were drinking wine.  And like I said Lena is always in these super chic outfits, and her hair’s always up in this bun.  She’s just always very put together.  She was at the house and she’s drinking wine, and she was just in this National City sweatshirt, and her hair was down.  And she was just very casual Lena.  [deep Lenasexual sigh]  That sweatshirt.  It just…it was like, what is happening?  [laughter]

KJ: It’s like the reverse of anyone else/

BL: /Yes!/

KJ: /Like someone just wearing a sweatshirt in every episode, they show up in a dress.  You’re like what was in that dress?/

VA: /Yeah/

BL: /Yeah, it was like a reverse She’s All That moment.  [laughter] 

KJ: And you’re like sweatshirt, [gasps]

BL: And all of the sudden all my tweets that episode when I was live tweeting, they just became all capitals, all the time.  I just kept going SWEATSHIRT, SWEATSHIRT!  I think I had a separate DM, private conversation going with Valerie.  I would just send her OHY MY GOD THAT SWEATSHIRT, THAT SWEATSHIRT, OH MY GOD LENA IN THAT SWEATSHIRT [laughter] and it was just like this thing.  [laughter]  That was soon after/

VA: /That was a great look/

BL: /Yeah, that was soon after when I was coined a Lenasexual. 

KJ: Yeah.

BL: Yeah, so it was a look.  And it changed us all/

KJ: /I got it/

BL: /It changed us all that night. [laughter] 

VA: And like, on a slightly more serious about Lena note.  Even though I know you’re very serious about that sweatshirt.  Lena coming onto the show kind of gave the show the ability to focus on women more than they already have.  And they been, off and on.  But Lena also brought a character called Sam with her, cause she works with her.  So Lena, Sam, Kara, and Alex get to hangout together.  And it’s adult women being friends, which I feel like is a cool thing to see, to watch them kind of support each other.  Sam is having these episodes where she’s losing time.  We the audience know that she’s a sleeper agent for murderous Kryptonians.  [laughter]

KJ: Woah.

VA: She’s called a world killer. 

BL: She’s the big bad of season three.

VA: But Sam, the human side of her, doesn’t know it. She doesn’t have any memories of turning into this person, this Reign.  So she’s just scared cause she’s losing memory.  She has a daughter, and she’s like I’m afraid I’m gonna hurt her.  So she went to her friends for support, and it’s a very cool thing to watch these like strong women in these cool jobs supporting each other, and being vulnerable with each other.

BL: Yeah, that’s one of the best things about Supergirl, I think is like you said when it focuses on all of women.  I mean, in one episode you can have superheroes, badass FBI agent, a cop…you had a CEO, you had the villain.  And then you had M’gann, so you had like an alien…the one episode last year, it was eight different types of women were in the one episode.  I was like this is so great.  I also will say, when you’re saying about Reign being the villain, and then I mentioned Lillian Luthor, and last year they had Teri Hatcher came on at the end of the season.  She was a villain.  I really like that they allow the female villains to just like be really evil. [laughs]

VA: Yeah!

BL: Is like a lot of fun to see, so.  I love Lillian Luthor.  Not in the same way that I love her daughter [laughter] I love her as a villain and I think the actress that plays her is really great too.   Brenda Strong.

KJ: Can I ask?  You mentioned Teri Hatcher.  She was in some super something, right? With what’s his name?

VA: She was Lois Lane, wasn’t she?

BL: Yeah, she was Lois Lane, with Dean Cain/

VA: /Lois and Clark/

KJ: Lois and Clark!  Right, right, right.  And then, is this true, the woman who played Supergirl in the movie on this series?  Helen Slater.

BL: Yes.  I was waiting for Valerie.  She plays Eliza Danvers.

VA: Sorry, I was muted by accident.  I got excited.

KJ: Cause I love Helen Slater.

BL: Yeah.

KJ: She was in The Legend of Billie Jean and she was Supergirl.  I saw that movie in the 80’s, so.

BL: Yeah, she plays Eliza Danvers.  And then Dean Cain, who was Clark Kent in Lois and Clark, he plays their dad, Jeremiah Danvers.  And then they brought Teri Hatcher on last year.  And then Lynda Carter, original Wonder Woman, plays a character.  The president of the United States actually, President Marsdin, in Supergirl.

KJ: Hell yeah!

VA: Yes. President Wonder Woman.

KJ: Do you get it? Marsdin?

VA: Yes!

KJ: Yeah. 

VA: Did you see Professor Marston and the Wonder Women?

KJ: Hell yeah I did.  I thought it was the best movie/

VA: /Fantastic/

KJ: /Of 2017, so.

VA: Yes, I agree.  Yeah, they bring on a lot of guest stars that were in kind of Supergirl comic history type of…

KJ: So lots of heavy winking.

BL: Mhmm.

VA: Lots of it, yeah.

BL: Like Kara did the Wonder Woman spin the first episode that Lynda Carter was in and stuff, so it was cute, yeah.

KJ: OK.    

BL: So.

VA: And actually there was a very cool…when Wonder Woman the movie came out/

BL: /Oh yeah/

VA: /there was a cool promo that Lynda Carter was in with Supergirl.  And like Supergirl had the bracelets on.  Or no, the boots.  And she was like, I got them from a friend.  It was very cute.  It was a very cute little promo that they kind of…

KJ: I love that.

VA: Yeah, I love it too.

KJ: It brings hits.  Honestly, that’s what you’re going to do, you’re going to be like oh did you see this?   You know, and then people just watch a little 30 second clip.  I don’t know, I like that stuff, I think it’s clever.  I’m into it.

BL: So…am I allowed to talk about SuperCorp?  [laughter]

VA: You can, yes.

BL: I’ll try to be brief and not super negative. 

VA: Well first can I say that I had…and I probably will forever…I pronounced it SuperCorp [hard p sound] in my head. 

BL: Mhmm.

VA: Cause I didn’t know the ‘p’ was silent.

KJ: I love that Bridget’s like “Mhmm”.  [laughter]

VA: [imitating Lenasexual Bridget] She’s like well, you’re wrong. [laughter] Wow.  Never mind.  Go on, Bridget.  [laughter]

KJ: Mhmm.

BL: So as we mentioned, Kara and Lena are like best friends.  But…the way that the show treats them sometimes, and the way that the characters act.  Like Valerie said, filling each other’s offices with flowers as a thank you.  It just…um…they…so, SuperCorp, which is the ship between them has developed this very big following.  I think the New York Times did an article that they were the number one ship on Tumblr last year.  So, a lot of people obviously want them to date.  But as I said, the show has made very clear that they are just friends.  I have issues sometimes with how the show treats them just because there’s ways that the actors will do things…I don’t think it’s the actors’ fault.  But Kara and Lena will have lunch together, and Lena says see you later and leaves.  And Kara…Melissa Benoist as Kara does this like weird giggle laugh thing, like how I would do if I was at lunch with Lena because I’m a Lenasexual.  [laughter]  That like, I think feed into what people are reading into/

KJ: /Sure, yeah/

BL: /the subtext and stuff.  It’s stuff that I struggle with, where I’m like…the show knows there’s this huge fandom that really wants those two characters together, and if you’re very set on not having them together, then you need to cut some of that shit out. 

VA: And some of it is literal dialogue.  Like it’s on paper.  Bridget says this a lot.  If Lena Luthor was Lex Luthor, if it was a man in this position, there’s no way that they wouldn’t be teasing this as a romance on purpose.

BL: Yeah.

VA: Because there’s some of the dialogue.  Like “Oh, you saved me”.  There’s one line, Lena Luthor literally says to Kara Danvers “Supergirl might’ve saved the city, but you’re my hero”.

BL: “Kara Danvers is my hero”.  Yeah. 

VA: Yeah.  She literally tells her she’s her hero.  And it’s like, I don’t know.

BL: And, two characters on The Flash got married, a man and a woman, and Iris literally says the same thing to Barry.  Like the Flash is a hero whatever, but Barry Allen.  It was like the same exact line of dialogue.  But the man and the woman were getting married, where we’re supposed to believe the two female characters are just BFF’s. 

KJ: Yeah, yeah.

VA: And like…and I understand.  I understand why the writers don’t want to go there, and I totally respect that/

BL: /I’m fine with that.  I’m fine with that/

VA: /I don’t think that characters should get together just because the fans think they should.  I don’t think…I get that they probably have network pressure to not make Kara Danvers bisexual because Alex Danvers is a lesbian, and they do have storylines for her.  I understand that there’s a lot of factors that go into things like this, but then to Bridget’s point, don’t write the most romantic dialogue that you can think of.

KJ: Yeah.

BL: They literally have Kara carry Lena like the bridal carry.  Like that Clark Kent does with Lois/

VA: /That Superman does.  Yeah/

KJ: /Mhmm.

BL: So that’s my whole thing.  My whole thing is always, if I described what was happening to you with a man…you would think if I said it was a man and a woman you’d be like, oh yeah we’re in the middle of this long rom com.  Between these two characters and of course they’re going to fall in love eventually.  But like, no.  It’s not.  It’s just these two women that are…and I’m fine with it, with it being friends.  But [sighs] I just want Supergirl to do better.  I love you a lot Supergirl, just like know what’s at stake.  You have this big responsibility, you can’t claim that you’re not aware of it anymore in this day and age, with everything with social media.  So just like, do better, and take care of what you have. 

VA: And at first I thought maybe they just didn’t, like the writers weren’t thinking about what adult female friendship really was like.  But then when Sam came on the scene, I was like Sam and Lena are best friends.  They never/

BL: /Yeah!/

VA: /it never feels like they’re falling in love.  They have really intimate scenes where they’re talking about their friendship.  Lena had this whole speech about the first time she saw Sam, but it never felt romantic.

BL: Yeah.

VA: The words were just supportive, and they felt really best friend.

BL: Yeah, you proved you can do it, so do it.  Valerie’s heard me say this too, so I apologize for repeating to her, but I always think of Supergirl as this child that I have that I know you can do great things, and I want you to do great things.  I want you to succeed, and I know that you’re smart and you’re capable, but why the fuck don’t you turn your homework in on time?  [laughter] Like you know you’re supposed to turn in the homework?  So do it.  Like why do we keep having these fuck ups?  C’mon, you’re capable.  Get your shit together.  All the pieces are here for you to succeed, just please start using them in the right way.  I can’t give up on you, because I see all that potential, and I want so badly for you to succeed, so let’s do it.  Stop skipping class, let’s go.  [laughter]

VA: And to that point, one of the other class skipping things that happened last season was that they focused too much on Kara’s relationship with a character called Mon-El.  They kind of lost/

BL: [disgusted sound] [laughter]

VA: /they kind of lost Kara’s whole character for awhile in this relationship, and it was really hard to watch.  This season they started to finally kind of pull away from that.  They’re taking a hiatus right now, and they made some big changes behind the scenes.  That was a whole separate thing that we can talk about later.  I think, and maybe this is my Kara Danvers optimism, but I think they’re on the right track to do better.  Earlier in the season, they even had the Mon-El character be like, look I know that I was bad and narcissistic, and I kind of invaded everything and tried to change you, but I don’t want to be like that anymore.  So I think I took that as a kind of a wink, to use Kat’s term, from the writers to be like listen we know this didn’t work the way that you wanted it to, so we want to do better.  So, I truly believe that we’re on the right track to doing better things with Supergirl, and I think we’re gonna get/

BL: /You have more faith than me.  I don’t have faith, but I need actual proof before I start to feel better.  And like Mon-El, I feel like my beloved Dixie Chicks – forgive sounds nice, but I will not forget.  He was awful.  [laughter]

VA: He was.  He was, but I think these past few episodes/

BL: /I’m surprised Valerie even said his name [laughter] because she usually doesn’t.  She refuses to say his name in her Supergirl recaps. 

VA: I do not.  I call him a different kind of bland white food every time I have to mention him.  Or I avoid it altogether.  And actually since, so he came…there was this thing where Lena Luthor banished him from the earth essentially, by making the air unbreathable for his race of alien/

BL: /My girl/

VA: /and then he came back from the future.  It’s a whole thing.  It’s hard to explain if you haven’t seen it.  But he’s married to this woman called Saturn Girl.  Imra Ardeen is her name.  So in my recaps I’ve just been calling him Imra’s husband. [laughter] So that’s really helped me in my ability to talk about him without talking about him.  But also one thing that I will mention, having to write these recaps, one thing I’ve noticed from not having to dodge him name as much is that he hasn’t been as important.  Like he’s been around, but he hasn’t been as important to the plot, which I think has been really great.  Cause I think that Chris Wood is a good actor/

BL: /Yes, I agree/

VA: /And I think that Mon-El worked very well for comic relief.  I think that he pops in with these one liners, and he is really funny and charming when he’s not being focused on.

BL: Yeah, if they would’ve left it as the brother sister, like Kara’s going to mentor him and help him be this superhero, that would’ve been great with me. 

VA: I thought he was going to be the cousin stand-in for Clark, that she didn’t get to train.  But, I think that the past few episodes, I feel like I’m seeing them understanding that and kind of seeing what worked.

BL: I know, I still just wish we could get rid of him, just like permanently.  [laughter] I just like, I don’t care.  I just don’t. [laughter]

VA: Yeah, so I have hopes for the back half of this season, which will come back in a few weeks.  I think that this is a good time to transition.  During the Supergirl hiatus, what has taken it’s timeslot is the show Legends of Tomorrow. [singing] Dah dah dah.  We switched gears, just like that/

BL: /I don’t know the theme.  I was going to sing. [laughter]

VA: Which is in the same universe.  Now that Supergirl’s on the CW, it’s in the same universe as Supergirl.  Because Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, and Legends of Tomorrow all do these crossovers every year.  So they’re all kind of in the same general, like mythology.

KJ: So like, Avengers or something?

VA: Yeah, sort of like how like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D is in the Avengers universe.  Like how Hulk, Thor, all of those movies are in the Marvel universe.  These are the DC.  The DC…the biggest difference though is the Marvel universe – the Marvel shows and the Marvel movies – are all in the same universe.  But the DC movies and the DC TV shows are in separate little bubbles.


VA: So the DC TV universe is all one.

KJ: Got it, got it.

VA: And right now the star of Legends of Tomorrow, Sara Lance.  The character’s name is Sara Lance.  She started on Arrow many moons ago.  She was kind of part of the core, the original story of Arrow.  She was Oliver Queen’s girlfriend/best friend in Arrow.  She’s kind of evolved over the years, in what I think is the best character arc of all time, Bridget?  Yes, no?

BL: Ohh, bold.  I don’t know enough.  I haven’t watched enough.  I’m not going to make a bold claim like that.  [laughter] But it is very good, from what I remember of Sara Lance when I used to watch Arrow.  I haven’t watched her whole…I haven’t watched all of the episodes, so.

VA: To give Kat a one sentence recap of where she’s…so she started as a rich, spoiled socialite.  She went on this boat trip with her boyfriend, it crashed, so she got stranded on this island.  She became part of the League of Assassins.  She became an assassin, then she became a vigilante, and then she died, and then she came back to life.  Then she became the captain of a time travelling band of heroes.  [laughter]

KJ: Man, comic books are wild. [laughter]  I seriously…wild.  You could write that shit down, and people are just like mhmm, mhmm.

BL: She’s died multiple times, hasn’t she?

VA: Yes.  She’s died so many times.  And so, when she…yes.  And when she died…she died for a full year once, and that was…they thought she was dead, but she wasn’t. [laughter]

KJ: [deep, dramatic voice] Dead for a year.  [laughter]

VA: So like, the audience, we thought that Sara Lance was legitimately dead and gone.  She was a bisexual character, and she had had this girlfriend Nyssa, who is played by Katrina Law…and so it was a bury your gays situation, and everyone was very upset about it.  Rightfully so.  So then when she came back to life, it was like oh!  They unburied their gay! [laughter]

KJ: That’s a way to get around that.

VA: Yeah. 

KJ: Can everyone just go back and unbury all of them?

VA: Yeah, it was a great undoing of the trope that they fell into.  And then she went on to become the star of her own show.  And is still very openly bisexual, and still has been charming ladies throughout time and space. [laughter]

KJ: I want that job.  I want to be that superhero.  [laughter] Charming ladies through time and space. 

BL: Yeah, it’s kind of like this band of misfits that they have now on Legends of Tomorrow, like from some of the other shows in the DC TV universe.  They go on missions every week where they time travel into different things and have some kind of mission.  I don’t even really know what’s going on, like I…[laughter]

VA: The thing is I don’t think it’s important/

BL: /I don’t care, yeah.  I don’t care.  Yeah, they’re trying to collect some totems or something this season, I have no idea what those totems do, like anything…I don’t care.  [laughs]

VA: Well, yes.  I do care a little.  The point is…

BL: I don’t.  I don’t.  [laughs]

VA: The characters are the most important part of that show. [Bridget still laughing at her own joke] The characters and their relationships with each other, and they…they’ve come so far as their little band of misfits.  The show itself touches on some really important things, in this really fun, goofy way.  Even one time they went back to the 50’s, and they were hangin out.  I think that was the same…that was the Ali Liebert episode.

BL: That’s like one of the only ones I’ve watched.  I didn’t watch the first two seasons of this show. 

VA: Oh, right.  So, there was a scene where Professor Stein, who is this older white dude/

BL: /Victor Garber!

VA: Yes, he was Victor Garber.  He was sitting in a booth with Jax, who is a young black man.  And Sara, who was a bisexual woman.  And he was like oh, the 50’s were so perfect, I wish we could go back to the 50’s, the 50’s were great. [laughter]  And they were like sure, it was great for you, a white straight dude.  And he was like ohhhh.  It was this goofy show about time travel very briefly in it’s own way, touched on that very important check your privilege type of conversation.

KJ: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

VA: I thought that…it does little things like that all of the time.  Sometimes when they travel back in time the women will have a hard time, or the people of color on their ship will have a hard time.  They don’t shy around that, and I like that.

KJ: Yeah, for sure.

BL: Yeah, when they announced that this show was going to happen, I was in like total superhero fatigue.  I actually didn’t watch the first season of Supergirl live when it premiered, which was like the same time.  I caught up on Netflix before season 2, but I just was like ughhhhhhhh I don’t need another superhero show at all.  So I didn’t watch, and then people had said last year…and then everyone was like season one is so dumb, it’s not good at all.  Everyone was complaining about it, and I was like yeah…totally fine not watching that show.  People started to say last year it was getting a little better, and I heard about Sara Lance, and that she was cool.  Admittedly, I sort of remembered her from Arrow when I used to watch Arrow, but I wasn’t super invested in her because it was right when she was first introduced like you said, as this girl who had slept with her sister’s boyfriend and all this stuff, so.  She didn’t seem like super great when she was first introduced.  So I was like OK, Sara Lance, yeah I guess.  She seems cool.  But then all my friends this year were like you have to watch Legends season three.  Just start watching it, it’s so fun and it’s gotten so much better.  So I did something that I never usually do which is just jump in at season three, but I’ve been able to keep up.  Maybe I don’t know what totems are and all that, but I think it’s like a lot of fun.  I find myself looking forward to it every week.  It’s just like a good, fun, feel good show where they just like do whatever they want it seems like.  [laughter]  We get to have more fun, so.

VA: And what happened was…I watched season one of Legends of Tomorrow because I watched Arrow.  I did love Sara Lance.  I kept watching her.  She wasn’t on it a ton, but her relationship with Nyssa I thought was really interesting, and they were/

BL: /To be fair, I never watched then.  So I don’t want people yelling at me about…I didn’t watch then.

VA: Yeah, and so they um…they were both in the League of Assassins together, and Sara got out of the League of Assassins, so it was like this forbidden romance thing.  I thought it was really interesting and really well done.  Caity Lotz and Katrina Law were really great, also great allies behind the scenes, and were really funny about their relationship.  Even now at cons, sometimes someone will ask Katrina Law a question about Nyssa and Sara and she is yelling about how much she loves them and wants them to get back together.  So I was watching the first season of Legends of Tomorrow for a Sara Lance hit.  I was like, any Sara Lance I can get, I will take it.  So if she’s on this show, this goofy time travel show, even if she’s only in a couple scenes, I’m gonna watch it.  And then as time went on she became a bigger and bigger part of it.  I think that the show realized that people were really into her character and her character growth, and so eventually they put her in charge.  They had a captain called Rip Hunter, and they eventually were like ummm, Sara’s the captain now.  And that’s really when the show took a turn.  I don’t think it’s just because I’m biased.  I think that they kind of leaned into the less serious and the more fun, and the more character driven stories.  Sara Lance has been killing it as the captain.

BL: She’s awesome.  And they never question her.  I think the male characters on this show are really awesome, how they’re written.  Well, maybe Nate sometimes is a little annoying.  [laughter] But I think the guys all are like here for they know Sara’s in charge and always defer to her.  I think the show does a great job with the male characters.  And I’ve always loved Ray Palmer.  I love Ray Palmer.  [laughter]  He’s like this dorky…speaking of Superman/

VA: /That actor played Superman too.  Yeah.

BL: Yeah.  Which I always am like what?  How was…I randomly remember that at times that Brandon Routh was Superman. 

VA: I think that they do a good job of having, like Sara’s the lead and she’s the captain and that’s pretty obvious.  But the rest of the legends, it does seem like they’re all equal, the men and the women.  I feel like Zari and Amaya get their own episodes, and Nate will get an episode, Ray will get an episode, Nick will get an episode.  I think that they do a good job of balancing and knowing that they each have their own strengths. Now they added Wally West, who was on The Flash for awhile.  He was really great and I loved him on The Flash, but it’s hard with that show.  It’s an ensemble show, but it’s definitely very Barry heavy, and so like the more distance you have to Barry relationship-wise…the higher the degree of separation, the less likely you are gonna get screen time.  So Wally kind of was getting the shaft.  They even like said it on the show.  They were like, Wally was like I just left for three hours and no one noticed.  I wasn’t here for that whole battle and no one said anything. [laughter]  It was kind of jarring, cause as an audience member you also didn’t notice that Wally had kind of disappeared for awhile.  So they put him on Legends, and I think that he’s going to stick around for awhile, and I hope he does cause I think that it’s a good place for him/

BL: /Yeah, I really like him.

VA: Yeah, and the actor’s really great.  I think it’s a great show.  Also this show did the opposite of what I thought it was going to do.  So earlier, before the season aired, there was an interview that came out that was like we’re really gonna remind people that Sara is bisexual and not a lesbian.  Cause she’s been having a lot of girls that she…so Sara Lance is someone who she doesn’t really like to get attached.  Ever since Nyssa, she just kind of would have like flings with people here and there.  But she…I wouldn’t call her a player.  She wasn’t playing any games.  I feel like she was always very honest about like I’m only here for a minute, do you want to have a fun night.  I didn’t feel like she was leaving broken hearts in her wake, you know what I mean?  I feel like she was just leaving like…

BL: Yeah, they do a great job.  There’s that trope that bisexuals are very promiscuous, and Sara definitely sleeps with a lot of people on the show, but it’s not in any way where it makes her look in this negative light.

VA: Right, I agree.

BL: Sorry, I interrupted your train of thought.

VA: No, it’s fine.  So when they said that, I assumed what that meant was she’d maybe have another fling or two with a woman and then she was gonna get a boyfriend.  She had been with mostly women so far on the show except for a little brief thing with Snart.  So I just thought that was what they meant.  On any other show at any other time before, that’s probably what they would have meant.  But instead what they did this season was she had a little fling with a guy, and then got a girlfriend.  Which, was awesome.  [laughter] I truly didn’t expect it.  And it was Jes Macallan, who I have loved since she was on that show Mistresses.  She’s just been so great.  She’s also a great ally.  I recapped Mistresses when she was dating a woman on that.  She was live tweeting with us, with our special little goofy hashtag.  So when she showed up again, I was excited to see her on Legends.  Then she played this character.  It was one of those things, where I thought it was going to be like SuperCorp.

BL: Yeah.

VA: I thought that it was just gonna be like us shipping them and then nothing happening.

BL: Cause it’s been the perfect slow burn, where like…at first they’re adversaries and they don’t like each other and all that.  It’s like, yeah. It’s classic little love story, and it’s been so nice to watch it.  Watch Sara actually be happy and vulnerable, I think is nice.

VA: Yeah, and watching the rest of her crew kind of rally behind her.  She was trying to not deal with it and her feelings about Ava, and people were like will you just ask her out already?  It was very cute and sweet and I liked it a lot.  And this last episode…so one thing that Sara struggles with is that when she came back from the dead, she dealt with a lot of bloodlust.  She had some demons literally and figuratively to deal with.  The fact that she was an assassin is kind of catching up to her.  So she has a hard time letting people in.  This last episode that she’s the happiest that she’s ever been, so she needs to pull away from it because she’s afraid of it.  I thought that that was a very…I don’t think it’s the end of AvaLance.  It didn’t feel like an ending, it felt like a Sara needs to sort some shit out.  But I don’t think Ava’s going to give her up without a fight either.  She just went to find a demonologist to help get her back from a demon realm. [laughter]

BL: And like in talking about…sorry, go ahead, finish.

VA: No, go ahead.

BL: I was just going to say, Sara’s not the only gay person on the show either.  I feel like almost all of the legends are a little bit gay.  It feels like, you mentioned Snart.  He is a gay man, Constantine is bisexual.

VA: Well, no Snart.  No wait, hold on.  Sara’s bisexual, Constantine’s bisexual.  Amaya is played by an actress who is dating a woman.  I don’t know if she identifies as a lesbian, or bisexual, or queer, or whatever.  Wally is played by an actor who identifies as queer.  I don’t know about Wally…although Wally in this last episode something about I’ll fall in love with someone someday, and that person will…and didn’t use gender pronouns, which I liked.  I always like when people do that.  And then Snart…I think that the Snart from our universe was either straight or bi, but the Snart from the other universe is gay.

BL: Ohhhhh, OK.

KJ: I don’t like that name/

VA: /Oh yeah, you didn’t know the original.  Yeah, his name is Leonard Snart. [laughter]

BL: I just feel like where you made the point about Supergirl, where they’re like well we already have Alex and she’s gay.  We don’t necessarily want to make Kara bisexual because she’s our lead.  I feel like on Legends, they’re like everyone can be gay!  And it’s fine.  [laughter]

VA: Yup.  I love it.  It’s great.  And that’s the thing too, right.  It doesn’t have to be just one.  That’s a ridiculous rule to have.  And I always joke, we travel in herds.  There’s not usually just one lesbian lying around.  It’s usually at least a few of us.

KJ: Thank goodness.

VA: Which is why on shows like, for example, Wynonna Earp.  When you have Waverly and Nicole, and you also have Jeremy.  And then you also have Rosita.  There’s no rule that you there has to be one queer person, and their one person they’re dating.  End of list.

BL: I had done so well in not bringing up Wynonna Earp while talking about Supergirl.  Now you did it. [laughter]

VA: I don’t know why you’d ever try to hold back on that. 

BL: I always find myself comparing the ways that I want Supergirl to be better to Wynonna Earp.  And then I’m like, it’s not fair Bridget! You can’t compare things to Wynonna Earp because nothing’s going to, but whatever.  Also did I mention that while I love the Danvers sisters, no one is as important to me as the Earp sisters.  Just putting that out there.

VA: OK, OK, OK.  [laughter]  No one is asking you to denounce the Earp sisters to love the Danvers sisters.

BL: I’m just making it clear!  I work on tears, and Earps are…number one. 

VA: Anyways, back to Legends of Tomorrow [laughter] I think that they’re doing a great job.  And like I think that this last episode that just aired, it was called Necromancing the Stone, and Ava and Sara’s whole arc throughout it was a classic epic sci-fi romance.  Sara got possessed by a demon and Ava had to call her back…use her connection with her to kind of snap her back out of it and help her fight through it.  It’s a very common sci-fi thing.  It’s usually just between a man and a woman, and it wasn’t.  And it was beautiful.  And I loved it.  [laughter] End.  I don’t have anything eloquent to say.  I just love these shows so much.

BL: I know, I feel evil when I have to criticize them in your presence. [laughter]

VA: No!  No, it’s good.  I try to do it…my recaps, I try to be honest when I’m feeling critical/

BL: /You do a very good job.

VA: Thank you.  But I do genuinely love both of these shows, and I’m so glad that we have them and that they’re popular.  That they’re such a big part of the crossovers, where Arrow and Flash are very male dominated, which is fine, whatever.  But when they do the crossovers, it’s a good balance.  I think it’s bringing things like Sara Lance being bisexual and Alex Danvers being a lesbian into…putting it in front of the Arrow audience who haven’t seen that in awhile since Sara and Nyssa haven’t been on the show in awhile.  I think they’re doing important things.  I think that their behind the scenes stuff…I think the actors who play these queer characters are doing a great job.  Oh, and oh, now is when I wanted to talk about Shethority! [laughter] Wanna talk about Shethority?

BL: Do it!

KJ: I don’t know what that is.

VA: So, the women of this DC CW TV universe.  The actresses all got together and started this company, this movement called Shethority.  They sell shirts that say Shethority.  On the back of them is all their little faces, and it says “We Got Your Back”, and there’s some cute designs and stuff.  All of the proceeds go to Girls, Inc.  They release little videos of, sometimes it’s them talking about their experience being a woman in the industry.  Sometimes it’s them just talking about their characters.  It’s just more women led content they’re just putting out there, and kind of giving women a platform for that. 

BL: And like women coming together and saying we need to support each other and empower each other and everything, so it’s really cool.

VA: Very on track to what I feel like we were trying to do here is spread positivity and support.

BL: They sell their shirts on Represent as well.

VA: Which is what I was alluding to at the beginning of the podcast.  We have come full circle.

KJ: Aaaaaaand scene. [laughter]

BL: We have talked forever at Kat.

VA: I know.  I’m so sorry Kat.  For awhile I thought maybe we lost you.  I was like, she gave up.  She hung up on us, she’s tired of all of this. [laughter]

KJ: I did not.  I totally understand now, and that’s really what I wanted.

BL: She knows sweatshirt, Sanvers, SuperCorps.

KJ: AvaLance/

VA: /She knew Caity Lotz.  She knew Caity Lotz’s name.

BL: Yeah, Ava Lance, she knows.

VA: I knew that because one of our little Earpers, the Heather in a Handstand…she just met Caity Lotz I guess a couple weeks ago, and I’m like I know that name!

BL: I will say, Caity Lotz too, from when I watched her on Arrow until what she’s doing now as Sara Lance on Legends.  I don’t think she was ever a bad actress, but she has gotten so strong as an actress now.

VA: I totally agree.  She’s always been really great at stunts.  She’s a dancer and she does a lot of martial arts stuff, so she does all of her own stunts.  She’s so badass.  There’s so many videos of her doing these crazy, like parkour.  She’s very, very talented in that respect.  I think that originally that’s why she was kind of picked to be this vigilante character.  I agree, I think that her acting though…she’s gotten so, so good.  And I’m like weirdly proud of her.  [laughter]  Not a normal feeling to have about people you’ve never met, I know. [laughter]  Hopefully I’ll meet her at ClexaCon and not tell her that I ranted about her for an hour, and then just try to be cool and just talk to her. 

BL: I’ll just have a soundclip of you going “I’m weirdly proud of her”, and I’ll just play it. [laughter]

VA: Bridget, don’t you dare.

KJ: I mean, what a compliment.  I’m weirdly proud of you. [laughter]

VA: I mean I’m like proud in a normal way, it’s just not normal to be proud of someone you don’t know I don’t think.  But I feel it, so I’m saying it.  I thought this was a safe space, I was wrong! [laughter]

KJ: Oh man, Bridget.  Just calling you out again.

VA: I thought this was women supporting women.  I don’t feel supported. [laughter]

KJ: A different way of smashing the patriarchy. 

BL: There’s been some breaking news while we were on this recording, that has come to my attention/

KJ: /Stop, breaking news! [laughter]

VA: Go on!

BL: Our beloved, Dani Fucking Kind, they have announced is going to be at EHCon Canada. 

VA: Oh, we did it!

BL: At the Earper Con. 

VA: Yes!

BL: I was like why is my phone, it’s on silent, but it’s been vibrating a ton.  I feel like people are probably yelling at me that Dani Kind is coming to Earper Con.

KJ: OK, so this is the con that was like this is our last guest, was Varun right?

BL: This is the one we begged of Dani when she was on our podcast.  We were like you have to go to EHCon!  It’s in Toronto, it’s being held in Toronto in August.  This is a Wynonna Earp con.

KJ: Oh, is this where I’ll get to sit on her lap?

BL: Maybe!  [laughter]  It says she’s only going to be there on Sunday, but…so.

KJ: So now I know.

BL: You’ll have the whole con to prepare for your lap sitting.

KJ: I mean this respectfully.  [laughter] She brought it up.

BL: She told you, I was going to say.  She said it on here. 

KJ: Yeah.  Oh, that’s amazing.  People wanted it.  It’s happening.

BL: This is proof you have to put what you want out in the universe.  We put it in the universe.

KJ: I’m so excited.  I’m so happy.

VA: I hope that all future breaking news is Dani Fucking Kind related. [laughter]

BL: I know, I felt like I scared Kat with that.  I’m sorry.  I should’ve just yelled Dani Fucking Kind! [laughter]

KJ: I hope that all breaking news…that would be.  You know like just fuckin CNN, breaking news. 

VA: [breaking news beeping sounds] [laughter]

KJ: Dani Fucking Kind!

BL: Hey, maybe we should have Deb put the song in right here. [laughter]

KJ: Oh God. Yeah, yeah, yeah

BL: Pause.

[music] Daniiiii, Daniiiiiii, Dani Fucking Kind


KJ: Oh, yeah yeah yeah.

BL: Breaking news is worthy of the jingle.

KJ: Oh, glorious.  Whoo.

BL: So.

KJ: Yeah, holy smokes.

BL: That’s an exclamation point that we’ll have discuss later.

KJ: And this is probably our last time we’re going to speak until after ClexaCon I assume, right?

BL: Yeah.

VA: Yeah.  Maybe we can hide in a room and record a mini just like message from ClexaCon when we’re all in the same room. 

KJ: Oh my God that would be amazing.  From the Hooters bathtub, I don’t know. [laughter]

BL: I know they’re doing/

VA: /Are there bathtubs at Hooters?  That seems aggressive.  [laughter]

KJ: There’s a Hooters hotel.

VA: Ohhhhh.

BL: It’s Vegas, anything.  You don’t know what goes on there, Valerie. 

VA: A very good point, Bridget. [laughter]

KJ: Imagine if there was just a bathtub, just in the Hooters restaurant. 

BL: I’ll be like, I thought I was going to see a lot of things at ClexaCon.  I didn’t know I was going to see bathtubs at Hooters.  [laughter]  I know they’re having…there are different podcasts at ClexaCon that are doing live tapings.  But we don’t have our shit enough together to have planned that.  [laughter]

KJ: Yeah, we’ll just hit record and be like Hi!

BL: Yeah. 

KJ: Bye!

VA: Maybe if we do it on Sunday, we can kind of do a quick favorite moments thing or something.  I don’t know, I’m just excited to be in the same room with both of you.

KJ: I know.

BL: As per usual, we’re not committing to any of this. [laughter]

VA: Bridget’s nervous.  She’s like this wasn’t in my outline.

KJ: If you come up with a title, a really catchy, snappy title Valerie, then she’ll do it. [laughter]

VA: True, true.

BL: But first she has to think of your Willow themed/

KJ: /Right, right.

BL: You’re very busy after this podcast, Valerie.  [laughter]

VA: I have homework?

BL: Mhmm.

KJ: Alright.

BL: Alright, I think that’s a good place to end it.

KJ: Yeah/

VA: /We did it!

KJ: Yes we did.  As always, we would like to thank our editor, who has again, her work cut out for her in this one.  It’s like half video, half audio, just a random cut in the middle somewhere.  So thank you to our editor Deb Snyder.

VA: Hero, hero, hero!

KJ: Mhmm.  And uh, Bridget, do you want to take us out with our tiny Thrilljoy.

BL: Yeah, thanks everybody for listening.  And as usual, Annie will have all of our social media information.  We love hearing feedback, so whether that’s tweets or emails, please feel free to reach out to us, cause we love hearing from you guys, so.  Thank you!

KJ: Thanks!

VA: Bye!

BL: Bye.

Annie: Follow us on social media.  We’re on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram @FemThrilljoys.  If you have any more thoughts on this episode or in general, you can email us at  And last, but not least, if you’re feeling extra generous, please rate and review us on iTunes.  Thanks!

[end podcast]