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Bridget Liszewski, Kat Jetson, and Valerie Anne take a break from smashing the patriarchy to chat about feminist-y things they love.

Episode 2: Rebel Girls - Transcript

Mar 7, 2018

In an effort to continue to make our podcast accessible to all we've got another episode transcript. In Episode 2, the Feminist Thrilljoys talk all about some rebel girls - a fictional red-headed FBI agent who is out of this world, a book of badasses, and a woman who is just as fierce on screen as off.

Another huge shoutout goes to Liz for helping us with this Episode 2 transcript. This is purely a volunteer effort so please throw some love her way if you're on twitter at @Earpnado


Feminist Thrilljoys – Episode 2 – Rebel Girls


BL = Bridget Liszewski

KJ = Kat Jetson

VA = Valerie Anne

/ indicates that two or more people are talking at the same time


VA: Welcome to Feminist Thrilljoys, a podcast where three women take a break from smashing the patriarchy to chat about feminist-y things they love.  I’m one of your hosts, Valerie, and I’m joined here by Bridget and Kat who will now say their names in that order. [laughter]

BL: I’m Bridget Liszewski.

KJ: I’m Kat Jetson.

VA: Thanks guys. [laughter]

KJ: If you only heard what happened before Valerie just teed us up with that. [laughter]

BL: We clearly need a lot of instruction on how to do this.

VA: We’re figuring things out. [laughter]

KJ: We’ll get there.  Episode 7 I think is gonna be the, the golden episode.  I think that’s when it all comes together so you have five more/

VA: /We’ll just have this intro thing down by then.

KJ: Yeah.  Just five more episodes of shit after this one. [laughter]

BL: But episode seven, wow. [laughter]

VA: It’ll be a whole new world.

KJ: Do they give away awards for podcasts?

VA: Uh, yeah.

KJ: Yeah (inaudible).  What are they called, do you know?  Like is there like a…you know how like and um…30 Rock, he wanted like the EGOT?  The Emmy, the Golden Globe, the Oscar/


KJ: /Like, I wonder if he like, in 2018 if that show were on he could add a new one for like podcasting, and I wonder what it would be…what it would be called.

VA: Like a Poddy or something?

KJ: Yeah, yeah. [laughing] 

BL: A Poddy/

KJ: /That would actually be so perfect. [laughter]  Oh man, I think he would be really proud. [laughter]

BL: Does that mean that our goal is to get like the Golden Poddy? [laughter]

VA: Now it is. [laughter]

KJ: Aaaaaaamazing.

BL: Let’s do it.

KJ: OK.  So, we have couple of little newsy notesy things.  First, we want to thank everyone who uh, rated and reviewed us on iTunes.  Um, really appreciate that, and it…makes a difference, who knows?  Someone deciding if they wanna listen to something and it’s got one review, they’re like “Forget it!”, so [laughing].  So thanks very much, we appreciate that.  And…I am going to be talking about The X Files.  But I did just want to…uh, I’m actually not going to be talking about The X Files, I’m going to be talking about Dana Scully.  Um, but I did want to mention that that has started again…uh, the first episode of the eleventh season uh, started on January 3rd.  So that is, that’s well into its…I don’t know, whatever.  It’s well into it’s eleventh season by the time this gets to you, I’m sure.

BL: I was gonna say, uh, you might talk about this when you’re talking about Dana Scully, but…I saw like, mixed uh, emotions about that premiere.  I don’t know.

KJ: Oh man, I...I wasn’t going to bring it up, but I will for sure because…I, I table flipped.  I was like “What the fuck?”/

VA: /Oh no./

KJ: [laughs]  Um, and I have watched that show.  That’s the only show that I have watched, episode one, from the beginning/

VA: /Wow/

KJ: /And because it premiered in, whatever it was, like 93 or something…[clears throat] there was no, I mean you could record it and stuff, but I watched it on a Friday night.  And I was so excited, I’d stay home, cause that kinda life I had and…yeah, it’s…I love that show and, I read comics for it, and I was really invested in…season ten was, I enjoyed it.  I was happy to see it back.  And yeah, that first episode I was like “Awww c’mon man”.

BL: Yeah.

KJ: So [clears throat] mhmm, yeah.

BL: I, I mean that was the general reaction I saw was people like, table flipping, so. [laughter]

KJ: And while we’re on some n…notes, at least some positive…Gillian Anderson got a star on the Walk of Fame.  I’m not certain what that means to most people? But…

VA: That picture of her, though, sitting like, with it, was the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen.  I don’t know if you saw it./

KJ: /She…I sure did.  [laughter]  She’s gorgeous, oh my goodness/

VA: /She really is.  She just looked so happy, it was so lovely./

KJ: /Mhmm.

BL: And I love Brian Fuller.  Brian Fuller gave it to her, or he spoke or something, right?  I don’t know.  I love him.  Side note. [laughter]

KJ: Little asterisk.  So, uh, yeah that was just sort of timely that…that was part of our little newsy notesy things.  And, yeah, I just decided to just talk about Dana Scully this episode.  So, yay!

BL: Yeah, I think we wanted to just, while we’re figuring out the format here just like shout out some little fun things that maybe are more timely.

KJ: Mhmm.

BL: Like you said, The X Files premiere, and then, um…I’m going to call her a friend of the podcast, we don’t [laughter]

VA: That feels right.

BL: Dani Fucking Kind.  Yeah.  Um.  Dani Fucking Kind’s uh, Working Moms just premiered in Canada on January 9th.  So if…season two…so if you’re lucky enough to be in Canada, we definitely recommend you checking that out, so.  Yay, Dani Fucking Kind.

VA: Yeah, she’s full Dani Fucking Kind in that show too.

BL: Yeah.

KJ: And also how amazing that…yesterday, that’s OK if you know when we recorded this, it’s fine.  Yesterday was, uh, Kiss a Ginger Day, was that it? [laughs]

VA: Oh yeah.

KJ: And we just talked about two of…I…Dana Scully is pretty fuckin iconic when it comes to redheads. [laughter]  And Dani Kind, so…

VA: Oh my gosh, perfect.

KJ: Oh man, we…I didn’t even realize how brilliant this would be.  [laughter]  I use that term very loosely.  Just brilliant.  Everything brilliant.  Like how people use the word…um…diva now. 

VA: Oh.

KJ:  It’s just like “Oh, everyone’s a diva or brilliant”, but…

BL: Well also, with that, um…Wynonna Earp, which we all love, is back filming for season three.  Or they’re about to film next week.  And Kat Barrell just tweeted that picture of her with her new like season three Nicole Haught hair/

VA: /That’s true/

BL:  So that was pretty gingery too. 

KJ: [laughs] Oh my goodness. 

BL: [laughs]

VA:  So many great redheads/

KJ: /Can it just be…can we just like Hug a Ginger Day?  Cause I think that would be…and even then, I would like to just ask all three of them.

VA: Right, it would Consensual Hug a Ginger Day.

BL: Yeah.

KJ: So, I don’t need to like go and…attack these three lovely women uh…with kisses.  That would be so rude, but gently hug those three fine people.  But yes, Wynonna Earp.  And one day we’re gonna have to talk about that.

VA: Oh, of course.

KJ: It’s just gonna be our full entire/

BL: /It’s just gonna be the whole episode, yeah/

VA: /It’ll be like a two hour special where we’re just [laughter] shouting about it for the whole time. 

KJ: That’s not so bad.  I think some of our listeners would really enjoy that.

BL: For sure.

KJ: And then the other thing that I wanted to mention…just uh, I love music.  The Distillers, who are one of my favorite bands.  Brody Dalle is the front lady of that band, and is, also has a song called I’m a Revenant, which again Wynonna Earp related, so/

VA: /Oohh/

KJ: /Uh, they teased on social media that they are reuniting for 2018, so.  That makes my heart pitter pat.  I’m very excited.

VA: That’s awesome.

KJ: Yeah.  I’m gonna end up talking about them too at some point, so.  Just so you know.


BL: Maybe episode seven.  I don’t know. [laughter]

KJ: Yeah. 

BL: I don’t know.  I, I’m not familiar with them so I don’t know if they’re episode seven worthy or not/

KJ: /Definitely/

BL: /Maybe that will be the Wynonna Earp episode. [laughter] But uh.  Oh yeah, and the other thing like I wanted to mention is, coming…I’m not sure when this episode will be released, but the week of January 15th, I am starting at the TV Junkies, where I write, um…we’re starting another round of, it’s called The Women Behind Canadian TV.  Um, it’s like a interview series that I came up with.  Uh, a couple years ago.  This is maybe like the third round of it.  But um, we basically just talk to different women that work behind the scenes of Canadian TV. [laughter]  Um, traditionally it’s been a lot of directors and showrunners and writers, but this year um, I really wanted to branch out and try to talk to um, some women in different departments like stunts, um, we have some assistant directors, cinematographers, um camera women.  Because um, those positions I think are still uh, there’s not a lot of women working at them.  So we tried to hunt those women out and talk to them, and, it’s just um…it’s basically like the thing I’m most proud of at the TV Junkies, is this series/

VA: /That’s awesome/

BL: /So I’m really excited that it’s coming back.

VA: It’s a very awesome series.  [laughing] I’m excited that it’s coming back too.

BL: [laughs]  It kind of started a few years ago because I read all the stats, um…it was actually um Mo Ryan, of course, uh the variety TV writer who I think we all are fans of, but/

KJ: /Yes, definitely/

VA: /Yes, of course/

BL: /She was talking about um…like women working in positions behind the scenes and how there weren’t a lot of female showrunners and things like that.  And I was like, I started thinking of all the shows I love in Canada.  At the time it was like Rookie Blue and, and Lost Girl and stuff and I was like “Oh, they’re all run by, by women”.  And I thought I was going to do this like great exposé about how [laughter] Canadian TV was like, so much better than the US.  And like, they had so many more women behind the scenes, and then they really didn’t.  So, um, it just started uh, trying to talk to the ones that had made it to like the big positions, so.  In the past, we’ve had people like Michelle Lovretta and Emily Andras, and um…Amanda, like great directors like Amanda Tapping and Helen Shaver, so.

VA: Awesome.

BL: Um, I, I’m really excited about like this, this round as well, so.  Stay tuned at TV Junkies this week.  That, that’ll run for like several weeks, so.  Look for those.

KJ: Bridget, will you be talking about um [Bridget laughs], some of the women that are the music, behind the music.

BL: Not this time.  I did talk to Andrea Higgins who/

KJ: /Yeah, I was gonna ask about her/

VA: /She’s amazing/

BL: /Yeah, yeah, I talked to her the last round, so/

KJ: /OK/

BL: /I can send you the link, or if you look on the TV Junkies.  Yeah, I t…um, because [laughs] Andrea does like, almost every show in Canada. [laughter]  Uh, yeah/

VA: /It’s gotten to the point where if I…I hear a certain song, I’m like “Oh this is perfect”, I’m like “I bet Andrea Higgins did this”/

BL: /Yeah/

VA: /And I’ve been right every time so far that I’ve thought that. [laughter]

KJ: She’s also a drummer/

VA: /Ooooo/

KJ: /Which I love drummers.  I also write about lady drummers, so.  Um, yeah.  And she gave me some tips, which was great.  She was like “Oh you should check out this band” or whatever, so.  Andrea Higgins, yeah.

VA: Nice.

KJ: That’s why I brought it up/

BL: /Yeah, she’s awesome.  And she does shows like, like historical dramas, and then she’ll do like a family drama, and then she’ll do like Working Moms, which is like a comedy.  And like every single genre that she does, the songs are just like so perfect.  It’s, she’s amazing. But/

VA: /Truly/

KJ: /Yeah/

BL: /That’s, that’s…but yeah, so look for that series cause I’m really proud of it.  And, excited for it to come back, so.

VA: Nice.

KJ: This podcast is like an extension of that for you, isn’t it?

BL: Yeah, in some ways.

KJ: Yeah, they shake hands, I guess, is more…I guess, yeah.

BL: Yeah, it’s basically…cause I’m like a huge TV nerd.  So I like hearing like, what the…each of the different people…like, I…going into this round, I talked to like a first AD, a first assistant director, and I had no idea really what that person did. 

KJ: Mhmm/

BL: /And so like to just listen and talk to about what she does on the set every day, I was just like in awe.  Like it was amazing, um…/

VA: /I’m excited to hear about that too/

BL: /Yeah, it’s…it’s mostly just me like, being like, how do a…did I get so lucky to talk to all these people [laughter] that like, make the shows that I love and like…that they’ll give, like they’ll give me an hour of their time or half hour of their time and like just tell me all about their job.  It’s so cool so, yeah.  It’s…

KJ: It’s definitely interesting to find out…what people, what that does.  Like, you know, like I live in Los Angeles.  We, this is the only place I’ve ever been to where people stay at the very end of movies, and there’s clapping and cheering because everybody that works here, you’re name’s gonna pop up.  Your friend’s name’s gonna pop up.  But...I have so many friends that are like editors or whatever, and I’m like “What does that person do, what does that person do”/

BL: /Yeah/

KJ: /And yeah, I don’t know.  I didn’t know what a foley artist was until one of my friends is a foley artist, and strangely enough, she foley’d one of the best sounds on X Files, so. [laughter] I’ll tell you about that later actually. [laughs] So, yeah/

VA: /Cause I have no idea half the words you just said, so I’m excited to learn about that [laughs]/

KJ: /Yeah.  [laughs]  Did you have anything that you wanted to add to the…newsy notesy things there, Valerie, or…

VA: Um, I guess just that uh, Supergirl comes back next week.  I’m really excited about seeing what they do with the back half of this season and recapping it again over on Autostraddle.

KJ: Wait, where did it go?

VA: It was just on a [laughter] it was just on hiatus for a month.



BL: I’m sorry.  [laughter]

VA: Sorry, did it not sound like that?

BL: [laughing] No, yeah I knew what you meant/

VA: /OK/

BL: /It just made me laugh that Kat was like [laughter]

VA: No, it has been off the air for a month for the holiday hiatus/

KJ: /OK/

VA: /It’s just a really long, it just goes on a really long break the way the CW does it.  So it’ll be back, um on Monday the…19th?  Is that what…16th?  I don’t even know what day it is today.  Monday the 15th yeah.  I’m killin it.

KJ: Oh, 15th, right, yeah.  [laughter]  The crazy thing is, I was just like no, I know I remember very recently people freaking the fuck out online about whatever about Supergirl.  So, I know it didn’t go/

VA: /Well, well when you recap it every week, four weeks off feels like a really long time.  [laughs] Sorry.

KJ: OK, I just wanted to.  I didn’t quite understand what happened.  But now I understand.

VA: That’s all I’ve got/

KJ: /Sure everyone is ready, to, I don’t know.  Tweet about Supergirl, right?

VA: I think we’re ready.  It’s time. [laughter]

BL: So who’s first?

KJ: I’m gonna be first today.  Cause we’re going to be talking television, book, television.  That’s how we’re doing it right?

BL: /Yup/

VA: /Yup/

BL: We’re bookending with television. [laughter]

VA: Nice.

BL: We’re bookending our book with television. Perfect.  So, as I said in the beginning my…uh, what I wanted to talk about.  Originally I was like “I’m gonna talk about X Files”.  And I’m like “No, X Files is still sort of problematic”.  And even still, the character of Scully is sometimes problematic.  Or it’s written problematically. [laughs] Uh, and then I was like “No, maybe I’ll just talk about Gillian Anderson”.  And I’m just like fuck, I don’t watch everything that Gillian Anderson has done, a lot.  And then I thought, maybe I’ll talk about…just Scully from X Files and Stella Gibson from uh, The Fall.  Did either of you watch that show?

BL: I did.


VA: I only watched that one scene with Archie um, from The Good Wife/

KJ: /Oh, yeah. [laughs] You did good. [laughter] I, so I was like that’s just too much.  I can’t talk about all of that because I didn’t think I could give both characters um…the attention they deserved.  But I do want to say that Gillian Anderson…in The Fall is…I, I like her more than I like Scully almost?

VA: Oh wow.

KJ: But Scully has more feeling in my heart.  I’ve never been so affected by a performance. I, I think I said once, I was like “This is the best performance of any actor I’ve ever seen on television”.  I just really felt really strongly about her portrayal of that character.  And I thought it was written very smartly.  Smart written, whatever.  It was written well. [laughter] Um, and I love it, and I think she’s a stronger feminist character than Scully.  But, that said/

BL: /Yeah, that show’s fantastic.  That show is fantastic./

KJ: /It is.  And, and it’s um…it’s a lot compacted in a very short amount of time.  But it doesn’t feel rushed.  I think they knew exactly what they wanted to say.  And there was no extraneous, like “This is just gonna be a one off episode”.  Or, they’re just like “We have this story, and it’s…”.  And it went over three seasons.  And I think the seasons got shorter as they went on.  I think it was like eight, then six, then maybe even four or five or whatever, but.

VA: Oh wow.

KJ: Highly recommend it.  It will fuck you up/

BL: /Yeah, it’s creepy though.  It’s so creepy/

KJ: /It’s really good.  Mhmm/

BL: /It’s so creepy/

VA: /It’s been on my list for a long time, but I’ll bump it up.

BL: And like the dude that’s in 50 Shades of Grey, like the movie/

KJ: /Jamie Dornan mhmm/

BL: /I don’t know how anyone could find him attractive like after you watch The Fall because he’s so creepy in The Fall, like he’s so creepy./

KJ: /Yeah mhmm.  Yeah, he’s handsome, but/ [laughter]

VA: /I don’t even know what it’s about, to tell you the truth, but that is neither here nor there.

KJ: Yeah, yeah, that’ll…I’ll just…that’ll be too much to get into it.  So, Scully/

BL: /Just watch/

KJ: /Just watch.  [laughs] Or maybe I’ll talk about it later on.  But right now, I was like I can’t give too much attention.  I just couldn’t.  I wouldn’t…give…I wouldn’t give both characters the attention they deserve in my short amount of time here.  But, uh, so X Files premiered in like 93.  Like I said, it’s like, in it’s like eleventh season.  And there were two movies, uh Fight the Future which came out in 98 and that like was, um…it was supposed to be a continuation of season five.  But also it works really well as a stand along.  I think it’s a really good…uh, sci-fi movie.  I think they did a great job.  And then much later on, there was a lot of issues with it.  Um…there was uh, another movie.  Oh my God I can’t think of what it’s called, but another X Files movie, and it was pretty bad, but.  [laughter]  It happened after the series was over, so people were very excited for it to come back, do you know/

VA: /Sure/

KJ: /I Want to Believe.  That was what it was called.  I Want to Believe.  Um…so…I did want to say one thing about the movie, the first one, Fight the Future.  The best moment ever, Scully like is…gettin her shit together, like there’s like a…I don’t know, there’s like disaster happening.  And she just gets in charge and she’s like “Just pick up that phone and make it happen” and I swear, my heart just like burst [Valerie laughs] like fuck this is so good. Sometimes I just search for that scene and I watch it.  I’ll be honest, sometimes I just YouTube it [Bridget laughs] and I get really happy.

BL: You’re psyching yourself up.  [Kat laughs] You’re like, just make it happen. [laughter]

KJ: Just pick up that phone and make it happen.  Um, and that’s also, that’s how I feel about life.

VA: Yeah.

KJ: Life’s short, make it happen, right? Yeah/

VA: /Make it happen.  I like it.

KJ: And so Scully is, she’s part of…lore now, right?  I mean especially Kate McKinnon, does everyone know, do you at least/

VA: /Oh my gosh/

KJ: /You know about the Kate McKinnon love, uh.

VA: Yeah.

KJ: Yeah.  She…used to be on this uh, show.  What was it?  The Great Big…Gay/

VA: /The Big Gay Sketch Show/

KJ: /[laughs] Yeah. 

VA: Yeah.

KJ: [laughing] I gave it so many more adjectives. [laughter]

VA: The great super gay.  No yeah, the Big Gay Sketch Show is what it was called.

KJ: And she’s in bed, and she’s just…I mean she’s young too, and she’s just like talking to the camera, and she’s just like “Gillian Anderson, if you’re listening to me Scully I just realized I was gay, and just keep your hair red”, like she really went for it.  I don’t think Kate McKinnon would ever do anything quite like that right now, but um..

VA: It was so good/

KJ: /Yeah I know tons of people who have dressed as Scully for Halloween.  And you know you’ve done something right, right?  If you…

VA: Oh yeah.  Wait, did you see the clip recently of Gillian Anderson talking about watching that Kate McKinnon clip?

BL: No.

KJ: Yeah, I sure did. 

VA: Oh, OK/

KJ: /She was talking about…so do you know about the Kate McKinnon clip that we’re talking about Bridget?

BL: No. [laughter]

KJ: OK, anyhow she was just professing her love/

BL: /Does that like call me out as the…/

KJ: /No, no no/

BL: /Does that call me out as the straight one? [laughter]

KJ: I think…that was pretty evident.

BL: Yeah.

KJ: Two episodes ago.  [laughter]  Anyhow, she’s just really playing it up for the camera.  She’s…just professing her love for Gillian Anderson, and Gillian Anderson’s Scully red hair.  It was very specific. [Valerie laughs] Um, and then, sometime maybe like a few years ago…I think…uh…Gillian Anderson…was made aware of the picture of Kate McKinnon dressed as her as Scully, and she said something very sweet about it like “I’m a fan too”, or I forgot what it was, but…very recently, she was on James Corden.  I don’t know what his show is called.  Late Late Night/

BL: /Late Late Night or something/

KJ: /Sure, that sounds great/

VA: /One of them/

BL: /Late something, Late Show, Late Night, they’re all that…

KJ: Yeah yeah.  They’re all that with a guy.

BL: Mhmm.

KJ: Mhmm.  Uh, and he asked her, he’s like “Oh did you see that video”.  She’s like “I was in the bath”.  I don’t know if she meant that she was in the…on the toilet [laughter] or she was in the bath and that’s just what like, fancy British people call like, the bathroom when they’re on the loo. 

VA: No, I think that she was literally like in the bathtub, like taking a bath.


VA: /Which is amazing.

KJ: /And she was [laughs] It’s a…it’s a great visual isn’t it?

VA: Yup. 

KJ: And she said that she finally saw that video, and she’s like “Oh my God, this is really…like sex or something” so, yeah. [laughter] I haven’t even got to talk about Scully yet, right, cause I’m just blah blah blah. [laughter]

VA: Sorry, that was my fault.  I derailed us. [laughs]

KJ: No, that’s OK.  Um, and also of importance, seeing as we were talking about redheads, Scully originally wasn’t supposed to be a redhead, but someone had the…the smarts to be like “No, redhead”.  And I was like thank God.  Thank God someone figured that out before it happened/

VA: /Yeah.  That would have changed everything. [laughs]

KJ: /Mhmm.  It really would have, right?

BL: Who was it, do we know?

KJ: I think it was just some hair person that was just like “No, let’s do it this way”.  She mentioned something like I just had really boring, mousy brown hair, and then they were just like “No, let’s do this”, so. Yeah.  Good for her.  We should interview that person/

BL: /Yeah/

VA: /Yeah, seriously/

BL: /Seriously.

KJ: And I don’t know if you know, but I love baseball.  And I live in Los Angeles.  Our person, our the sound of the Dodgers is Vin Scully.  And Chris Carter, who created The X Files, named his character after him cause he loved the Dodgers and loved Vin Scully.  Did you know that?

VA: I did not know that.

BL: I knew, I knew who Vin Scully was.  I didn’t know that that was…where The X Files character came from.  So cool.  That’s very cool./

KJ: /Mhmm.  Yeah.  That’s her last name, it’s not her first name.  Her first name is Dana, so/

BL: /Yeah/

KJ: Um, so I’m just giving you a little random, little tidbits…but uh, so yeah you haven’t seen the show, I don’t think either of you have seen the show, right?

BL: /No/

VA: /I’ve just seen like, little bits here and there.

KJ: OK. 

BL: It was like the thing of like, I was like eleven when it I think when it came out.  And then, I never…it got like too many seasons/

KJ: /Yeah/

BL: /And I couldn’t go back and catch it up because we didn’t have like straight Netflix or anything. [laughter]

KJ: Mhmm.

BL: So it’s always like been something I’ve been curious about, cause I’m into genre, but I just never took the time I guess.

KJ: /Yeah/

VA: /Yeah my dad watched it so I’d catch an episode with him now and then, but I was pretty young when it was on also, so I…

BL: And then I had this weird thing where I was always like…super pissed because Gillian Anderson would get all of the awards in the 90’s, like all of the TV show awards.  [laughs]

KJ: [laughing] Uh huh.

BL: And I didn’t watch X Files and I was like “Unh, why does Sarah Michelle Gellar never get this award?” [Kat laughs] Like I always wanted Sarah Michelle Gellar to get it for like Buffy, so like I  had this like grudge against Gillian Anderson for whatever reason because/

KJ: /That’s amazing/

BL: /She was always taking awards from Buffy.  So. 

KJ: Aww.

BL: I, I finally figured out like years later when I finally watched Gillian Anderson in stuff.  I was like “OK, I get it”/

KJ: /Mhmm/

BL: /Like, she’s amazing.  [laughs]

KJ: Like, how you’d be made at like, if you didn’t watch anything with Julia Louis Dreyfus, you’d be like “Fuck Julia Louis Dreyfus”/

BL: /Yeah/

VA: /Right/

KJ: /Yeah.  [laughs]

BL: I was gonna say I had the same grudge against Allison Janney because she won all those years for The West Wing, and I never watched The West Wing, and I was always like “Aw, who’s Allison Janney?  I’m sure she’s not that great” [Kat laughs]/

VA: /She is that great/

BL: /I watched like Drop Dead Gorgeous and all these other things and I’m like “Allison Janney is that great”. [laughter] So to Gillian Anderson and Allison Janney, I apologize to both of you for holding grudges against you in the 90’s. [laughter]

KJ: That’s amazing. 

BL: But, go ahead.

KJ: So, all like the superficial stuff that I’ve talked about, I haven’t even talked about why this character is, you know, amazing, and feministy.  Uh, so basically it’’s a super sci fi show…and the, Mulder, who’s played by David Duchovny.  Um, he’s part of this…or he has this…I don’t know, section of, he’s an FBI agent, called the X Files.  And they just supernatural stuff that he just looks into…and he…um, he’s interested because his sister…got…or was abducted by aliens, supposedly.  And so…the FBI sent this Dana Scully to basically debunk him.  To just, you know, keep him in line.  Make sure he’s just not…going off the deep end, and….it’s kind of great because she is the sort of grounding force, as opposed to like where the guy is always like “I’ve got it together”, she’s the one that they call for, um…I don’t know how to put this, but.  She’s just the voice of reason right, and logic, and she’s a/

VA: /Yeah/

BL: /Like the role reversal of what we’re used to seeing.

KJ: Right. And uh…she’s a doctor.  She’s a scientist.  Uh, she’s a, I think what also drew me to her character, or made me even more…interested, is that she’s…she kinda walks the line of…believing in God, because she wears this cross all the time, and she actually has some like religious beliefs.  But she’s also a scientist.  So, I grew up Catholic.  [laughing] I’m no longer a Catholic, but uh…so I really connected with her/

VA: /Yeah/

KJ: /On that sense.  I’m certainly not a doctor or a scientist [laughter].  But I understood how, just growing up…a Catholic…how you’re just sort of strong armed into believing certain things.  And you’re just like “Wait, I have to question this”, so…she grappled with that, and I really like that.  Um, and…and it’s kind of like, when she joins the X Files, it’s only then that his superiors take him seriously.

VA: Huh.

KJ: Like she was the reason that…if she’s like “No there’s something here”, and they’re like “Oh, we kind of believe you.  We don’t believe him, but [laughs] we believe you”/

VA: /That’s awesome/

KJ: /And um, it is.  And you know so often when you have two very attractive people and you, you put them together, it’s just going to be a show that’s just about sexual tension and attraction.  And that gets old really quickly, right?  I mean, I don’t how you, I don’t know how you could do that for 11 seasons, honestly.

VA: No.

KJ: And there was some, some of it there, but it never cut into the stories that they told.  Which were sometimes, there were a lot of one off episodes that were really um, really funny and delightful.  And then they still kept up with like a really intense storyline, um…so, I don’t know. I love that it wasn’t weighed down by, um..

BL: Romance.

KJ: The sexual tens…yeah, really.  And, I don’t even think they ever showed either of those characters really…it’s a long time since I’ve seen the beginning of it like…going on dates, or doing whatever, so.  Um, I guess I just thought…sort of like the strength of the show was their equality and balance, you know?

VA: Yeah.

KJ: And I don’t know, she was also very vulnerable…but she’s not like the damsel in distress.

VA: Which is ideal.

KJ: Yeah, yeah.  Uh…so.  Yeah, that’s Sc…that’s why I love Scully.  The end. [laughter]

VA: The end.

KJ: I feel like I could talk about it forever.  Now that I like, just like, I feel like I’ve pulled the string a little bit.  Um, and I could bring up a lot of other things…but the main reason that I think she’s so…magnificent is, she was really strong without strong arming anybody.  Do you know?

VA: Right, yeah/

KJ: /Her presence/

BL: /She just like used, like she used, used her brains.  She didn’t have like some like kick ass fighting skills or something.

KJ: No.

BL: Yeah.

KJ: There was nothing.  But, when she would…oh, this was…little cute little thing I was gonna talk about.  [laughter] Foley uh…is when you’re watching a, uh television show or a movie or whatever and you hear keys/

VA: /Oh/

KJ: /Someone picking up keys.  Someone records that on a sound stage.

VA: Right.

KJ: And then they edit that in later.  So that’s a foley artist.  Um, and the best thing is when she pulls the gun out of her holster.  My friend is the one that came up with that in the movie.  And it’s how she created that sound.  She showed me.  I went to the Fox lot, which was amazing.

VA: Nice.

KJ: And she showed me how she did that, and it was an old like…shoe [laughs] and a leather purse and she like actually did have a gun, uh, in between those two.  And she just like kinda like pulled it out/

VA: /Huh/
KJ: /Between those two things.  And it was the sound.  And I was like, she was like “Just close your eyes I’m gonna do this for you”.  And I was like “Oh my God, this is amazing”.

VA: /That’s so cool.

KJ: Yeah, her name is Dawn Fintor.  Uh, if you want to see her IMDB.  [laughter] She’s a foley artist.  She did that.  She worked on The X Files, so. [laughter] How rad is that?  So another lady.

BL: Yeah, I love learning that stuff/

VA: /Yeah/

KJ: /Mhmm/

BL: /Everything that goes…I once got sent a screener.  It was actually a show that Andrea Higgins does music on.  And it didn’t have the music put into it yet.  So, I was…it was like amazing to…I, I like quit watching it.  I was like “I can’t watch this” like, after ten minutes, I was like I feel like it’s not fair to the show, because/

KJ: /Mhmm/

BL: /But it didn’t have like, even the little like composed music that you don’t realize like in between scenes, it was weird.

VA: Oh yeah, shows are creepy without that stuff/

KJ: /Right.  [laughter] That is, that is one that I…I, that’s great that you brought that up.  How weird is it, when you do see that, like do you feel like you’re invading…like people’s space or something? [laughter] Like I feel…I feel a little creepy watching it, and I also can’t believe how well actors do without…

BL: /Yeah/

VA: /Yeah/

KJ: /All of that stuff.  It just seems like all of that is happening in real life/

BL: /Mhmm/

KJ: /All around them, while they’re filming.  Like, almost like…you know, action, and then sounds come up and everything/

BL: /Yeah/

VA: [laughs]

BL: That was more disturbing to me than when I got one where they still had like the VFX, like you could still see the wires.

VA: /Oh yeah/

KJ: /Mmm.

BL: That, the…the no sound, like the music not being in it was way more disturbing to me than  being able to see the wire. [laughs]

VA: Yeah, the…the VFX stuff is always just funny, like one time I watched um there was a show on for awhile.  It was a TV show version of the movie Minority Report, and it was also called Minority Report.  And they do a lot of, they have a lot of like high tech, like futuristic tech.  And they had this whole scene where none of the VFX were in yet.  And so they were just kind of waiving their hand in the air, because it was like some kind of like smart screen.  So like, and during the actual show they would be moving images around and stuff.  But, there was nothing there.  So they were just flailing around.  [laughter] It was amazing, it was amazing to watch.  But it’s definitely way less disturbing than when there’s no music.  And then, even though everything looks fine, you’re like “Something is terribly wrong right now”. [laughter] 

BL: So does your friend/

VA: /Which is weird because like in real life there’s not like, music playing when we’re having dramatic moments sometimes, so…it’s just, it’s just funny.

KJ: I wish there were. Or was/ [laughter]

VA: /I wish I had like cued up, like this is how I’m feeling right now while we’re having this conversation.  [laughter]

KJ: Yeah.

BL: So does your friend, like do this, like when they’re on the phone and…she, does she have to like record the other voice, like put that in or something.  Cause they’re not really talking on the phone when they’re filming, so.

KJ: I don’t think she does that.  I went and visited her when she worked on, she worked on like Hannibal…she worked on a couple things/

BL: /Oh man, she worked on the coolest shows. [laughter] Hannibal, Hannibal like…oh, yeah. Nevermind.  That’s a whole other thing. 

KJ: I don’t mean to ruin it, but I think it was…it was the movie.

BL: Oh, ok.

KJ: Yeah.  Um/

BL: /Well then she sucks.  Just kidding/

KJ: /I haven’t been to her work in a very long time, but.  I mean it was just crazy.  Some kid in Connecticut who watched The X Files movie and then she moves here and then one of her friends ends up being this person who came up with this sound.  It was just, yeah.  And she…mostly it just seemed like horse galloping and you know/

BL: /Yeah/

KJ: /Keys.  And it was great because it was two women that were doing it.  They were a team and they worked together, so um.

VA: Badass.

KJ: Yeah, right?

BL: One of my, uh, favorite shows is The Americans.  Hardly anyone else watches it, I never can find anyone to geek out with about it, but there was a scene in it that’s like…the sound on…they had someone Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys’ character had someone in a hotel room, and it was a dead person.  And then there was a suitcase, so I’ll just let you like, imagine, but.

KJ: Mhmm.

BL: So they don’t show them putting it, the body into the suitcase.  But you hear it all instead.  And it was like the most like disgusting scene I have ever/

KJ: /[laughing] Oh God/

BL: /Had to experience.  And it was, you didn’t see anything.  You just heard it, and it was like. [laughs]

KJ: Ohhhh God.

VA: That’s amazing.

BL: Yeah, so.

KJ: Oh I could, now I’m feelin it. [laughter]

BL: Yeah.

KJ: That’s gross.  Fuck.

BL:  Yeah, yeah.  They did another one like that with something with dental, and it/

VA: /Oh God, oh no/

KJ: (disgusted sound)

BL: But, watch The Americans because it’s one of the best shows on TV. [laughs] And maybe I will be talking about that one day on here, cause it’s awesome and feministy too.  Or Keri Russell’s character is, so yes.

KJ: I’ve been wanting to see it.  Their…whoever does the advertising for them.  Their visuals…like the campaign for um, the ads and stuff.

BL: Yeah.

KJ: Are so good.  They just are so bright, and really bold, and it makes me want to watch that show, so.

BL: Mhmm.  Yeah.  I love it so much.  I, I like love Keri Russell too.

KJ: Is it still happening?

BL: Yeah, it’s about to start it’s last season/

KJ: /OK/

BL: /Like in March I think, so.

KJ: Okay.  So yeah, I feel like I…uh, put a period at the end of my Scully-ness very abruptly, but, I do…I think it’s a great show.  I think it’s really fun.  I think it’s hard to…uh…it’s very daunting to think about coming at it, um…from episode one.  That’s 11 seasons, that’s a lot.  But, it’s definite…if you catch episodes here and there, there’s a lot of standalones. And I think that they’re…I think it…it’s really well done television.  I am very bummed about episode one of season 11 though.  So, yeah.  But, fuckin Gillian Anderson/

BL: /Well, and she was…she was off of it for awhile, right?  Did you still watch when she was not on it?

KJ: He was off of it, she was never. 

BL: Oh, OK.

KJ: Yeah, he was off for one season, and Annabeth Gish came in as um/ 

VA: /Ooooo/

BL: /When she was still on it?  I am confused.

KJ: Uh, yes.  Mhmm.  It was Anna-/

BL: /So they had two female partners?

KJ: Mhmm. 

VA: Nice.

KJ: Yeah.  And also they were…originally they were going to make Scully’s character gay or bi, or do something, uh when Annabeth Gish came on.  You could totally tell that season, there was such great sexual tension/

VA: /Nice.

KJ: Uh, I liked it way more than the David Duchovny sexual tension [laughter] obviously.  But I think that Chris Carter/

BL: /I’m shocked/

KJ :/The creator wanted it.  And, Gillian Anderson was certainly into it.  I think she’s openly been, uh considers herself bi.  And Fox at the time was like “No”.  And can you imagine Fox saying no to that now?  They’d be like “Fuckin give that to us”.

VA: Right, wow.

KJ: They, they messed up.

VA: They did.

KJ: But…I did not, I tried to Google that to see if I made that up, but I don’t think I did [laughter] but I didn’t find anything either.  Like my Google yesterday history, was like Scully gay Gish. [laughter] And I could find that, but I’m…I’m pretty sure I read that, but I feel like. [laughter] If someone else had heard that that listens to this and wants to send us an email, or whatever, that would be great. [laughter] If someone else…

BL: Someone validate Kat’s feelings.

KJ: Please! [laughter]  Maybe I just had a really great dream about Gillian Anderson and Annabeth Gish. [laughter]

BL: Maybe you were reading too much fan fic.

KJ:  I did not…I’ve never read X Files fan fic. [laughter] 

BL: Now you’re gonna get links to a lot of it.

KJ: I am not saying I have not read Carmilla fan fic, but I’ve never read X Files fan fic. [laughter]

BL: Well that’s uh, something you could say about The Fall, her character in The Fall, cause she’s bisexual in that, so.

KJ: Yeah, mhmm.  Yeah.

VA: Yeah she is.  Full circle.

KJ: I talked so much, ladies.

BL: No you didn’t.

KJ: It’s time for us to move on. [laughter]

BL: Um, I guess I’m up.

VA: Yeah/

KJ: /You’re up!/

BL: Um, and I am not doing a TV show, which is a little surprising for me.

KJ: Do you feel…are you OK? Do you need like, a…a warm hug and maybe a/

BL: /I know/

KJ: /Spot of tea.

BL: And we’re only like on episode two.  It’s like, I’m already into new territory.  It’s…it’s a little different for me, but um/

KJ: /Mhmm.

BL: I did pick something that was near and dear to my heart.  Um, because it’s something that I’ve been really enjoying lately with my kids.  Um, so, I have two daughters they’re eight and a half and six.  And every night, you know, we read together, um…something.  And last, at one point during the last year um, one of my aunts gifted them with a book.  And it’s called, um…Good Night Stories for Rebel Girls.  Um, there’s actually two volumes of the book now, but uh, we initially just got volume one.  And, this was from my Aunt Jan.  Um, and it’s kind of fitting that…that she gave it to us, because this was an aunt that I was always really close to my whole life.  Um, I think when I was born, she gave, uh…a sign to my parents.  And it hung in my room and then it subsequently hung in my sisters’ rooms, and it’s actually in Annie’s room now.  But it says girls can do anything, so/

VA: /Aww/

KJ: /What.

BL: Yeah, it was fitting that the book came from my Aunt Jan, so. [laughs]

VA: I love it.

KJ: I love that a lot.

VA: Me too!

BL: Yeah.

KJ: You should take a picture of that little sign and we could post it, seriously [laughter]

BL: Yeah, it’s definitely, like you can tell it’s like from the 80’s. [laughter]

VA: Even better/

KJ: /Oh I love it, I love it.  [laughs]

BL: Yeah, um, my Mom just finally gave it.  Cause like I said it hung through each of our rooms, and…I don’t know.  She, she was definitely…my Aunt Jan was definitely the biggest feminist I knew growing up.  Like, she’s a lawyer, um…she used to live on a farm.  And she’s just, I don’t know, she’s just she always proved that you can be like smart, and you can speak up for what you believe in and then just like confidently go after what you want, so.

KJ: Mhmm.

BL: Um, so I love that this book came from her.  So, um/

VA: /Nice.

BL: What, what the books are…They’re, um, it’s a children’s book.  And it, each volume contains, uh 100 stories of about different women from the past or the present even.  And, it’s definitely a feminist book. [laughter]  It has like no shame in, in that.  Um, but it looks to be really inspirational and empowering for girls.  But I think that what’s great, is, I mean it also obviously looks to be educational and inspirational for boys too.  Like, I think by no means is it like, just a girls’ book, which is really cool.

KJ: Mhmm/

VA: /Nice.

BL: Um, but what it does is it…it profiles women from all different avenues of life.  Some of them are famous that you’ve definitely heard of.  Um, I think I tweeted the other night, it was like Beyoncé was in it, so [laughs]

VA: /Yesss. [laughter]

BL: But there’s some that are like, really um, obscure, that you’ve never heard of.  Um, some of them are role models, but some definitely fit the, the rebel girl title.  Um, where they’re like rule breakers or polarizing figures.  But I don’t know, like, every single one of them is a bad ass/

VA: /Nice/

BL: /Like, that’s all you need to know. [laughter]

VA: Yeah.

KJ: Can I ask you a question.  One…uh, I love…I, I actually did a little research on what you’re talking about, cause I love the title, one.  Uh, there’s a Bikini Kill song called Rebel Girl.  And you said that there’s a lot of, it covers a lot of stuff. 

BL: Mhmm.

KJ: Do they talk about Kathleen Hanna in this book?  Do you know? I’m curious if you got there yet, maybe?/

BL: /I want to say no.  I feel like I’ve gotten through the C’s, cause it’s alphabetical by name, and I don’t think so.

KJ: OK, well it’s a K.

BL: Oh.

KJ: So you’ll have to get to the k’s.  But, I’m curious if it is, because she’s…

BL: Well, yeah, I don’t think so, at least not yet.  I’m sorry/

KJ: /OK, that’s all. That’s OK.  When you get to the k’s, let me know if you get to a Kathleen Hanna.  [laughs]

BL: OK. [laughs].  But yeah, what’s cool is the…I know like the authors said that they wanted to pick women from like, as many fields as they could, um, so that…that every girl reading the books could find something that they could relate to.

KJ: Ooohhh.

VA: That’s so great.

BL: Yeah, so you have like queens, and princesses.  But then you have historical figures.  Like they have, um, Ada Lovelace, for example, who was like…considered the first computer programmer.

KJ: Mhmm.

BL: Um, and then political figures, like they have Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama. 

VA: Awesome.

BL: Um, artists like Frida Kahlo and writers, um.  But then they have like sport figures, like Serena Williams.  And then, I know they do have musicians though, and rock stars because they have…I know like Joan Jett is in it.

VA: Yeahhhhh.

KJ: She also, she covered that Bikini Kill song/

VA: /Nice/

KJ: /With them called Rebel Girl, so there you go, there’s the…

BL: There we go. [laughter]

KJ: I’m happy now.  I’m satisfied. [laughter]

BL: I know they had, like I said, they had Beyoncé.  I, I know there’s other musicians in there too, but um…it’s cool too cause they do pick, like I said, controversial women like Hillary and then they picked like Margaret Thatcher.

KJ: Mhmm.

BL: Um, but they’re not like pushing any political agenda in it.  Which is cool, but I think…what I like about them picking people like that is that it shows like women don’t have to be likeable, and you know, you can do whatever you think is right.  Even if you like, if other people aren’t liking it, so.

KJ: Mhmm.

BL: That’s what I like about them picking those people, but.

KJ: Hence the rebellion/

BL: /I don’t…yeah…so, I don’t want to tell like, the rest of the names of the book because like, we have so much fun when we’re reading every night.  We’re always like ”Oooh who’s going to be next?”  like, so, like we like purposely don’t look at the table of contents, so/

VA: /Oh, I love that/

BL: /So it’s like who’s going to be next?  And so, we turn the page and see who it’s gonna be, so. [laughs]

VA: Oh, that’s so awesome.

BL: Yeah, cause we’ll read like, two or three a night.  Well Matt and Annie, they’re reading only one a night.  They read theirs separate.  They’re like hoarding…they’re like, “We’re not…we’re flying through it like you guys” and I’m like “Fine”.  [laughter]

KJ: I would love this book/

BL: /Oh it’s totally fine for adults/

KJ: /Just, it looks beautiful.  No,  it, it looks beautiful.  And, um…it’s almost like uh one of those tangible things that you still want.  You know, there’s so many things that you can just buy on Kindle, or do whatever.  But, this looks like a really great tangible item.  And especially if you’re reading to kids, just to flip the page, or let them flip the page, I don’t know.  It seems really cute, I love it.

BL: Yeah, the pictures that they…they, so each um…like each woman they give one, it’s one page story.  And it’s, it’s written like a fairy tale.  So it will start with them saying like “Once upon a time, there was a girl who could flip”, and then it’s about um, like, the gold winning gymnast or something.  Or they’ll say like “There once lived a little girl who loved school”, and it will go into that story, so um.

VA: That’s awesome.

BL: It’s really for like the child to consume, but like I’m always like “Oooo, what did, what did the girl who loves school do?” [laughter] Like I get like so into it.  [laughs]

VA: Did you say there were three volumes?

BL: No, there’s just two.

VA: Oh.

BL: The second one just came out, like at the end of November, um.  It’s so funny cause like we heard about it and I was like “Put it on the Christmas list!”  I was like “I want it!”, I was like “Put it on my list”.  But yeah, so, like the stories are always like…they don’t shy away either, from like serious and complicated information, but they, it seems like they tell it in this way like that kids will understand, and.  It’s always like, this is a fairytale and here was a hero, and she faced this challenge, and this is how you know she smashed it or whatever so.  It’s awesome.  [laughter]

KJ: This is how she smashed it.  I love it.

BL: Yeah.

VA: I love that.

BL: But like the, um, the history behind the books too was, was really um interesting.  This was something I didn’t know until I started looking at it, um…for this.  But the creators um, who are two women, um Elena Favilli and Francesca Cavallo, I believe they’re from Italy.  But um, they originally started this as a Kickstarter campaign.  And they wanted to raise around $40,000, because they were going to publishers and saying like “You know we have this really cool idea, and we’re not seeing this like, out in the industry and we think we could fill this hole”, and I guess like all these publishers were turning them down.  And telling them that they were like really naïve for thinking that this could be a success, but/

KJ: /Hmm/

BL: /But in one month of their Kickstarter campaign, they ended up raising $675,000/

KJ: [laughing] /Whaatt?/

VA: /Woah/ [laughter]

KJ: Oh my God.

BL: So, yeah.  They went from like a $40,000 goal to being like, the most crowd fund…I think they were the most crowd funded book in history.

VA: That is amazing.

KJ: That…what?

BL: Naïve that…naïve that, publishers. [laughter]

KJ: Oh man…oh, what beautiful payback.  I mean that must be why the book is, looks so amazing, right?  I mean…

BL: Yeah. Uh I, I think…well, I think the one girl is a journalist and the other is a stage director and playwright.  But I, I thought…they’ve also created this Timbuktu magazine, which I guess is like the first iPad magazine for kids.  But um, yeah I guess they just realized that like 95% of the books they grew up with lacked girls in prominent positions, they said, so that’s why they wanted to make this book.  Um, and then like you said…so they have the one page story, and then accompanying it is a picture of the woman.  And it, the…the illustrations are beautiful, because I guess they got, they wanted to get…um, they got women from all around the world, they got over 60 artists from all around the world.  And they’re all done in like different styles, and um…it’s just like these beautiful full color illustrations I guess, of all the women, so those are like, just really cool to see with everything, um.  And, and they said that they wanted to get so many different artists because they wanted to show like a range of different kinds of female representation because they were so used to seeing, you know, the traditional like Elsa in Frozen look in characters/

KJ: /Mhmm/

VA: /That’s awesome/

BL: /So that’s why they wanted to do this.  Um, so that the pictures didn’t all have like a small waist and big eyes and stuff, so. [laughs]

KJ: Right, right.  I, like you’re convincing me, like I’m gonna/

BL: /I know, go buy it.  I’m like go buy it./

KJ: /No, seriously.

BL: I think you can buy it, um, as a two pack on their website.  But, yeah, that’s the other thing.  Like it’s available now in like over 30 languages or something, and…and their website, you know, has details, we can provide the website link in our show notes, but um.

KJ: Absolutely yeah.

BL: Yeah, you can get it off their website or just on Amazon or something, but it, it’s published in all different languages, um, around the world, so…

KJ: [whispers] Yeah.

BL: Yeah, it’s just like so…I don’t know…it’s, it’s…it seems like super timely right now.

KJ: Mhmm/

VA: /For sure.

BL: And then, just to talk about some of the stuff.  Like, in the first book they had um, like the first um, trans um child that went to school and wanted to use the girl’s bathroom.  They were talking about that, and/

VA: /That’s awesome/

BL: /I don’t know like, they…they talk about like sexualities, like different disabilities, like religion, like all these challenges that the women...but it doesn’t feel like you’re sitting in a lecture, or getting like…I don’t know, it’s cool.  I mean there’s like a, there’s like a girl that’s like a freakin like eagle huntress. [laughter]

KJ: /Very specific/

VA: /That’s amazing/

BL: /I was like, oh my gosh.  Like we’re reading, and it said like her job title like eagle huntress.  And I was like Oh my God, cool.

VA: Eagle huntress is the most badass thing I’ve ever heard.  [laughter]

BL: I know, I was like damn. [laughs] She like climbed up to mountains, and like got this baby eagle that she trained and now the eagle hunts for her and her family or something, it’s like amazing.  [laughter]

KJ: And I just wake up and go to work/

BL: /I know/

VA: /Seriously/

KJ: I tackle traffic.  [laughter]

BL: Yeah, I mean like…but even like the queens and stuff that are in the book.  Like, they’re always out fighting in the war.  They’re not like “This queen sat in the castle, and she did this”, like it’s always like “She was a queen, but she fought um, and won the war, and was out there like on the battlefield” like, it’s cool.  I don’t know.

KJ: It’s also a great conversation starter.

BL: Mhmm.

KJ: You know?

BL: For sure.

KJ: Even for you, you’re like…if you’re kid is like “What’s an eagle huntress?”, you’re like “I don’t know, let’s find out”.  [laughter]

BL: I know.

KJ: You know.  I mean it seems like self-explanatory, but not really.

VA: /No, not at all/

BL: /No.

VA: I, I would love to learn more…I feel like after this I’m gonna go like Google that person/

BL: /Mhmm/

VA: /To learn more about them.

BL: I know.  Goodnight Stories for Rebel Girls.  [laughs]

VA: I love it.

BL: Yeah.  It’s, it’s great, but like…I, like I said.  Even if you don’t have girls, I feel like…if you’re an adult, or if you have boys, it would be awesome.

KJ: Mhmm.  Yeah.  Get your boys learnin about rad girls.

BL: Mhmm.

VA: For sure.

KJ: Mhmm.  And women.  And ladies. [laughter] And everybody else in between.  [laughs]

BL: Yeah.  So, that’s my topic for this week. But yeah, I was, I got really excited as I started researching it, because it was, I was like, oh this thing I love is even cooler/

VA: /I love when that happens/

BL: /Yes, definitely go support them. [laughs]

VA: Awesome.

KJ: [singing] Who’s up next, there’s only one person left/

VA: /It’s just me! It’s me, it’s my turn.  Um, I am also going to do a TV show today.  And I am going to talk about Shameless.  Specifically Fiona Gallagher, [Kat laughs] but mostly just all kinds of things Shameless related.  Have you guys, I forget, have you both seen Shameless at all?

KJ: I have not.

BL: We are shameful to tell you no [laughter] that we have not seen Shameless.

KJ: Oh, Bridget. [laughter]

VA: It’s fine/

BL: /I’ll see myself out.  [laughter]

VA: Yeah, the pun was not fine. It’s fine that you haven’t seen Shameless yet. [laughter] But, you definitely should.  Um, so I started watching Shameless, I think it was already in it’s fifth season when I found it, and I just like binged it.  It was…so…fascinating and so good.  And it’s just full of so many talented actors.  I, I…the, the tricky thing is it’s on Showtime.  So not everyone gets Showtime, so um, I think that not a lot of people…like it’s, it’s not like…it’s not as easily accessible as some of the other shows so it’s not every day that I, I meet other people that also have watched it.  So I’m not that surprised that you guys haven’t watched it.  But, if you…

BL: It’s on…is it on Netflix though?

VA: I…

KJ: Shows that are on Showtime usually don’t go to Netflix.

VA: Yeah, I’m not sure/

KJ: /They want you to just…buy a subscription to Showtime, I think/

VA: /Right, I think all the back episodes are like, on Showtime app, but not…I don’t know, I don’t know that they’re…I, I cannot be sure.  I totally forget how I watched it cause it was awhile ago.  Cause now it’s in it’s eighth season, and actually before the eighth season even started it got renewed for a ninth season, so you have plenty of time to catch up, just saying.  [laughs]

KJ: Oh wow, uh huh.

VA: Um, it is a lot of episodes/

BL: /It’s still eight seasons [laughs]/

VA: /I know, but it’s not…it’s not like network, it’s like 22 episodes a season.  There are only like 12 or 13 I think.  Um…per season.  And they’re, it’s…very very good.  Anyways, I’m not here to try to convince you to watch it.  You do you, um, but.  [laughter]

KJ: You’re just here to celebrate.

VA: I’m here to celebrate and tell you what I love about it, and if that happens to convince you to watch it, then [laughter] I won’t be sad about getting messages/

BL: /Fair/

VA: /As you watch it about all of your reactions to everything.

KJ: We’re very nice. [laughter]

VA: Uh, so Shameless is about a family living in the southside of Chicago.  And the…the kind of head of the family is Fioana Gallagher, but she is only the head of the family by default because she is the oldest of um…I think there’s six or seven kids.  I would have to count them/

KJ: /That’s OK, don’t worry about it/

VA: /There’s a lot of them.  Um, but and their parents are all but absent.  The mom um, had some mental health issues that she never really got a handle on.  So she would disappear for long periods of time.  When the show starts, she’s just totally gone.  And the dad, Frank, is just a hot mess.  He’s very, he’s a very selfish character and…doesn’t feel any sense of responsibility for really any of these kids.  Like he’ll, he’ll come and go as he pleases too.  Like he’ll come, he’ll show up one day and be like “Oh, I’m your father, you have to listen to me”/

KJ: /Hmm/

VA: /But then be gone for three months.  So, there’s a lot of complicated history there.  But so the only consistent thing was that Fiona was always there for her siblings.  She was always the one raising them.  Um, but it wasn’t even necessarily out of like…like…she obviously loves her siblings, but it never was like “Oh, like I have to be this Mother figure” it was like “We have to survive and we have to do this together and I just happen to be the oldest”.

KJ: Mhmm.

VA: /So like, she kind of just took the, the helm there.  Um, and she’s just, I just, I love the character of Fiona because she’s super badass, she’s always just like kind of taking charge and doing what she thinks will be the best for everyone involved.  But she’s also not perfect by any sense of the word.  Like she, she makes mistakes all the time, or…she sometimes, if even if she does everything right, she’ll still not succeed.  Which I think is…is a really refreshing kind of take on it.  I feel like on a lot of shows, if, if people like do the selfless thing it automatically works out for them, which is…

KJ: Like magic or something.

VA: Yeah, which is great and like…it’s, it’s a very uplifting message and, and something I think we need to see, but it’s not how real life is all the time.  Um, sometimes despite your best efforts, despite your best intentions, like…shit goes wrong. [laughter]  Um, so it’s…it’s kind of nice to see someone else also going through that, um, on your TV, cause you’ve gone through it yourself.  And she does have selfish moments where like sometimes…like especially as the kids start to get older and they’re a little bit more able to take care of themselves.  You see her more being like “Well, is it my turn to take care of me now?”, um, which sometimes can be really jarring to watch.  Someone be like “Oh, I don’t want to take care of you right now.  Like right now I want to go do what I want to do”.  But it’s…it’s…I, I think it’s really fasc…I mean Emmy Rossum is just such a, a talented actress.  And everything she does is…is, it’s always so emotional.  Like you can tell it’s not an easy decision.  It’s not like she doesn’t care about them and that’s why she doesn’t want to do this.  It’s just like, she has, she’s trying…she’s really trying to find this balance between taking care of her family and also getting what she wants out of life, um.

KJ: Mhmm.

VA: And I really love watching it.  Um…

KJ: It’s interesting, can I ask you/

VA: /Mhmm/

KJ: /Uh, so William H. Macy plays the lead…or not the lead, he plays…he’s the dad, right?

VA: Yes, he’s Frank Gallagher, Fiona’s father.  All the kids father.

KJ: So, you’re saying that he like disappears and stuff like that.  Is he…shown, sort of, what he’s doing while he’s disappeared/

VA: Yeah, usually yes./

KJ: /OK, I thought that maybe literally just is not on any episodes, OK [laughter]/

VA: /No, usually…he’s in, he’s in…he’s in every…I think as many episodes as Fiona is.  Um, maybe like a handful that, he, he wasn’t really in.  But no, usually it’s showing what he’s doing instead of taking care of his family.  Like it’ll, it’ll cut from like Fiona trying to get the youngest fed and out the door, and Frank at a bar like shouting about his conspiracy theories/

KJ: /Right, mhmm/

VA: /Um, or like swindling someone out of money which is usually what he’s up to.  He’s usually trying to swindle people out of money for drugs, is generally his like, shtick.  Um, while Fiona’s trying to…sometimes she tries to swindle people out of money, but it’s usually like so they don’t get evicted from their house.  Um, so it’s…it’s definitely an interesting dynamic.  And actually I’m glad you brought up William H. Macy because…Emmy Rossum, like this is kind of outside of the show, but um…a feministy thing about the show also  is Emmy Rossum, um beginning of, before she signed her contract for season eight, demanded equal pay with William H. Macy/

KJ: /Yeah/

BL: /Yeah.

VA: And actually, I was just reading…so I remember reading about that, and I remember…she was like not gonna sign the contract unless she got paid the…cause they have the same, they’re like billed the same as stars of the show, um, and they have the same essentially amount of screen time.  So she wouldn’t sign the contract…but what I read was, she actually demanded a little more than William H. Macy to make up for all the years she was paid significantly less than him.

KJ: Hmm/

BL: /Nice [laughs]

VA: Which I thought was bad ass.  And she got it.

KJ: You know what, what I think would be a great time, seeing as I forgot to sing the theme song right now?  [laughter] My response to what you’re saying right now, you know, fifty minutes into our podcast is [singing] Feminist Thrilljoys, FUCK YEAH. [laughter]

VA: [laughing] Yesss. [laughter]

KJ: That’s my response to…Emily Rossum right now, is fuck yeah/

VA: /Yes.

BL: Yeah.

VA: Yeah.

KJ: So it was that, that was just this season, the one they’re working on, that she…

VA: Yeah.

KJ: Yeahhhh.

BL: I remember seeing like, a ton of headlines and stuff about that.  And having not watched the show, but I remember thinking yeah, good for her, like take a stand/

VA: /Yeah, cause I mean…they couldn’t have done the show without her.  Like, she carries the show for sure.  Um, so I think that they, they made the right decision in listening to her, and she made the right decision to demand it, cause it should’ve been happening all along.  Um, and also…I’ve read, I read like a…in the article I was reading about it to make sure that I was getting my facts right about it…um, it was like oh, it was mentioning how at one point TMZ cornered William H. Macy to talk about it, and he was like “She works just as hard as I do, I think this is great”.  And like, he was…he was really supportive of it, which is nice.  Um, and Emily Rossum herself, also like, she’s been really active in this um, Time’s Up campaign, um…recently like. She’s just, she’s always been very vocal about her feminist opinions um, in on Twitter and Instagram and stuff.  So, I think she’s very great.  Um, and also just the show in general tackles like pretty much everything.  Like it’s tackled like, um…LGBT issues, it had, it’s had a bunch of queer characters.  One of Fiona’s brothers, Ian, is gay, and he had a relationship with um, this guy who struggled.  Mickey, he had a hard time with his coming out.  Um, like he had a lot of internalized homophobia so they went through all that.  Now Ian is dating um, Trevor, who is a trans man, who is played by a trans actor, which is awesome, and unfortunately rare.  So, um, and they’ve been really doing a really great job with that storyline.  Uh, and like talking about it and kind of addressing some of the more popular conversation topics.  And like, um…kind of, I don’t know.  I really liked the way that they handled it.  It was not like this big scandalous thing, it was just like, oh, here’s something we need to talk about.  And it was like, OK great, we talked about it, now let’s go back to making out.  And it was like, I don’t know.  It was very sweet/

KJ: /Right.

VA: I really liked it.

KJ: I like what you…like, I’m interested in the show just based on that one thing that you said that was, um, even though characters are doing the right thing it doesn’t always work out.  Because I think that that is something that is super rare.

VA: Mhmm.

KJ: Like it’s so rare to, to see that.  And, that’s interesting to me.  Because sometimes you do want to know that…even though you, like other people go through shit just like you, and it doesn’t always, it literally just doesn’t always work out.

VA: Yeah.

KJ: You know.  Fun television is it always working out and like the hero’s walk or whatever, but yeah, I really like that, I appreciate that/

VA: /Yeah, and sometimes it’s…it’s, and like, Frank is like…this like very selfish guy, and things work out for him all the time, [Kat laughs] and it’s so frustrating to watch these kids, like trying to do their best and like, making mistakes but then having to pay for them later.  Um…

BL: No, but we all know people like that.  Where you’re like how the hell is that guy/

VA: /Right/

BL: /Like getting this stuff when he’s doing all the wrong things.  And then like when you were talking about Fiona and, and you know being a little bit selfish or things not working out, it actually made me think of Wynonna Earp, like why I like her so much.  Like, since I always go back to Wynonna Earp. [Valerie laughs]

KJ: I thought the same thing but I wasn’t gonna go there/

BL: /It was making… [laughter] I’m sorry.

VA: Yeah, and it’s…it’s similar to that in, in content.  It’s definitely um, a lot grittier, in general, cause it is Showtime, so it is, there is a lot, but no, it’s exactly/

BL: /Yeah, I wasn’t saying it was like the show at all, it just reminded me like, that’s like the kind of female characters, or like lead characters you like to see like/

VA: /Yeah/

BL: /Cause you…they feel relatable and I don’t know.

VA: Exactly, for sure for sure.  Yeah, and there’s also um…like they’ve been…there’s also like kind of goofy ways that they do serious topics.  Like right now, um, Emmy Rossum’s character Fiona’s best friend Vee is in a throuple with uh [Kat laughs] Svetlana, who…like…helps them run their bar, but then they send her to jail.  It’s like, there are a lot of like extreme hijinks on top of the very real [Kat laughs]…um/

KJ: /Extreme hijinks [laughter], POW

BL: Well it’s still, it’s still the escapism you want from TV.

VA: Right, right.  And it’s, and it’s definitely like as, as serious and heavy as the topics they are that they handle, they…it is a funny show.  Um, which I always appreciate.  And like, it is funny in that like, real…like it’s not…even when they’re doing ridiculous things, it’s, it’s usually like…like sometimes how in your real life you’re like how is, how is this happening right now to me?  Like it’s, it’s never…like too far that you’re taken out of it.  But, it’s definitely like, pretty ridiculous sometimes, in a very very fun way. Also just on a selfish note, um, this season they added uh, Jessica Szhor.  I don’t know if I’m pronouncing her name correctly.  It’s s-z-h-o-r, so I think it’s just Szhor.  But um, she plays, uh Nessa, who is a lesbian character, um, which is very exciting.  She’s played a lesbian character before and she’s very good at it. [laughter] Um, so I’m excited to see, and I…I don’t…it’s, it’s funny, the beginning of this season…it almost seems like they’re like subtly setting her up for something with Fiona, which would be very surprising to me, um but I would not say no to it, you know?  Um…

KJ: I like, don’t even watch this show and I would not say no to it. [laughter]

VA: Like, cause it’s, and it’s funny cause it’s like not one of those shows that’s like oh, we’ve checked the box of like gay and trans so we don’t need, and bi, so we don’t need to do anything else.  Like they just keep adding more/

KJ: /Mmmm/

VA: /Queer characters, like they don’t care.  They’re like OK, this is part of the story now.  Like, um, which I always appreciate.  Cause like, I feel like a lot of shows will just like, tick that box and then be like OK, we have our…our diversity or whatever, and, um, we don’t have to/

KJ: /Right.  Which is, is always so obvious, isn’t it, when it happens/

VA: /Yeah/

BL: /Yes.

KJ: They’re like here’s your person of color.

VA: Right.

KJ: Now everyone shut up.  It’s like woahh, let’s just.  Lots of people on the earth. [laughter] 

VA: Yeah.

KJ: Let’s represent lots of em.

VA: Yeah, and even like, from personal experience, like…I don’t know a lot of queer people who don’t run in circles of queer people.  Like, usually there’s not just like one queer person appearing somewhere, and like, they…they don’t come with any like queer friends or like, I don’t know.  It’s just so interesting to me when a show has one queer person.  And I’m like where…how did that happen?  That’s not really realistic.  We travel in packs.

KJ: Does anyone see the L Word? [laughter]  They all meet up at The Planet. [laughter] Every morning, they all start work at the same time and the can all meet at The Planet. [laughter]

VA: Any TV show that/

BL: /I always just wondered/

VA: /Yes!/

BL: /How they had that much time before work.  I’m like…[laughter]

VA: That used to bother me on Gilmore Girls too.  They’d go to get/

BL: /Yes/

VA: /Coffee and breakfast before school.  And I was like, I was up like just enough time to roll to school.

KJ: Yeah.  Well, television.

VA: Yeah, but yes, OK.  In conclusion, Shameless is great and uh, Emmy Rossum is very very very talented and badass in real life.

KJ: Yeah.

BL: Yeah, that was one I was always like interested in.  Cause I like William H. Macy too.  Um, I like that he’s married to uh, Felicity Huffman, who is another bad ass.  But uh, I just, I never checked it out cause I never, I don’t think I ever had Showtime, unfortunately.

VA: Yeah, yeah.  And that/

KJ: /Is that who he’s married to?/

VA: Yeah.

BL: Yeah.

KJ: Oooh.  OK.

BL: [laughs] Last episode we blew your mind with Lea Michele, now we’re dropping…

KJ: I’m still not over Lea Michele. [laughter]

BL: I’m not over it either. 

VA: I know, that’s something that people keep tweeting our/

KJ: /I am way not over that/

BL: /I asked so many people after that/

VA: /Yeah, people keep tweeting our account, like “Wait, what?” and I’m like I’m so happy, that I, as a middle namer myself, got to reveal a truth about another middle namer.  [laughter]

KJ: Oh, man, we could talk about that/

BL: /I’ve already busted that out at a party, as like a fun fact, so. [laughter]

KJ: Wow, you have some real crazy parties. [laughter]

BL: I know, it’s a wild time in suburbia. [laughter]

KJ: Do you come in with finger guns and just like…I’ve got a willldd bit of information for you people. [laughter]

BL: We sent her into a fit. [laughter]

KJ: Just this image, I guess of Bridget coming in with finger guns.  [laughter] I created my own image/

BL: /Wanna hear a fun fact, wanna hear a fun fact/ [laughter]

VA: Popping her collar a little bit. [imitating cool Bridget] Hey, I got a cool fact for ya. [laughter]

BL: [imitating cool Bridget] Hey, you like Glee? [laughter]  Wild times, in suburbia.

KJ: Wooo.  OK. [laughter]

VA: That feels like a…a good place to end.  Hysterical laughter.

KJ: We do have some things to say right/

BL: /Yes/

KJ: /Before we, before we go.

VA: That’s what I meant.  I meant…wrap it up!

KJ: Wrap it up, wrap it up.  Um, I did want to mention one quick thing.  Uh, a couple of people have asked us, have tweeted at us or, whatever.  Or sent us, I think it was email whatever, and said uh…asked if we were interested in um, recommendations.  Uh, and I totally appreciate people like “This is great, I would love for you to talk about this, because other people are like this is a show that I connect with and I feel, um, has you know great feminist qualities”.  So I love that people are asking us/

VA: /Right/

BL: /Mhmm.

KJ: Uh, I don’t know that we’ll get to all of it.  Uh, I have a list that’s like a fuckin dead sea scroll. [laughter] It’s like, there’s a list that I would like to talk about.  But I did want to point out that someone mentioned 9 to 5, that movie. 

VA: [singing] Workin 9 to 5/

KJ: /And because I love thinking about, talking about stuff that’s really old apparently with Grease 2 and I have ideas/

BL: /I was gonna give you crap saying you have a dead sea scroll list and Grease 2 was at the top of it, but like [laughter]

KJ: Look at, the Legend of Billie Jean’s on the list.  Um, just one of the guys on…now 9 to 5 is on that list because holy shit/

BL: /Yeah/

KJ: /Of fucking course it is.  That movie was so great. But, I…I do want to thank those people that are making suggestions and just, I don’t know, starting a conversation with us.  I appreciate that, so.

VA: Yeah, everyone on Twitter and all of our social media has been so great and supportive.  And, I love people like tweeting us while they’re listening to the first episode was pretty great.  I loved that.

KJ: [laughing] That was pretty…live tweeting, listening to our podcast/

VA: /Yeah/

KJ: /Was adorable.

VA:…I was like wait, I’m usually the one live tweeting things.  And now someone’s live tweeting me, what’s happening?

KJ: Aww, yeah, it was super cute.

BL: It was cute.

KJ: Yeah.  Um, and then we have just some thanks, right?

BL: Mhmm/

KJ: /We’re gonna do some thanks.

VA: Do it.

KJ: Uh, we want to thank our editor, always always.  Top of the list/

VA: /Always/

BL: /Always/

KJ: /Deb Snyder, uh/

VA: /A hero/

KJ: What’s that?

VA: A hero, among us.

KJ: Mhmm. [laughter]  And you can find her on Twitter @debage01.  So that’s d-e-b-a-g-e zero one.  Thank you Deb, always.  Uh/

BL: /She’s been on her honeymoon, and we’re gonna be like “Welcome back”.

KJ: Here’s three audio files, do shit.

BL: [laughing] Thank you Deb.

VA: Yay!

KJ: And then, uh, our logos and stuff uh, created by Scary Krystal.  You can find her on Twitter @ScaryKrystal with a k, an r, a y, and s, a t-a-l.  And, did we mention this last time about their calendar?

BL: We didn’t, um, it wasn’t up yet, so.

KJ: OK.  How about you do that?

BL: Um, so Krystal along with another fan artist, um, Diana Benitez.  They, um, in the month of December, they were running the 12 Days of Haughtmas on Twitter. [laughter]

KJ: It was brilliant.

BL: It was awesome.  It was different, um, images of Nicole Haught, uh the character from Wynonna Earp.  But they have put all of those images together to make a calendar.  A 2018, it’s a wall calendar.  And it’s available through Redbubble.  Um, we’ll put the link in the show notes.  Um, I think it’s through the end of January.  But all proceeds from that, they are donating to the Trevor Project, so. 

KJ: Which is so awesome/

VA: /That’s amazing on so many levels.

KJ: I asked, uh, how long it takes…I asked Krystal how long it takes, or someone did, how long it takes for them to do one of those.  And I think she said something like 18 hours/

BL: /Oh my God/

KJ: /And they like did them, they like did them, um see-sawed them every day.

BL: Yeah, they’re amazing.

KJ: So, for them to do all of that work just so other people get joy out if it/

VA: /Yeah/

KJ: /And obviously, you know, they’re creative people.  Uh, and just that’s a lot of work.  And then the proceeds for that like/

VA: /Right/

KJ: /Just going to a great cause.  That’s totally Earpers/

VA: /Yeah/

KJ: /I’m just gonna give a fuckin shout out to Earpers, so, yeah. [laughter]

VA: Yeah, so amazing.

KJ: So that’s…good for them.

BL: Yes, thank you guys.  And thank you Krystal.

KJ: I mean, good for the Trevor Project as well, because yeah.

BL: Um, and then, our social media/

VA: /Oh yeah we have a special treat/

BL: /So last time [laughs]/

KJ: /Yeahhh/

BL: Last time we joked that we should just have one of my kids, who thinks they’re a YouTube star [laughter] uh, record…record the social media for us.  So that’s what we did.  So, my daughter/

VA: /Tiny feminist Thrilljoy.

BL: So my daughter Annie, is going to handle all of our social media handles for you, so here she is with that information.

Annie: Follow us on social media.  We’re on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at FemThrilljoys.  If you have any more thoughts on this episode, or in general, you can email us at  And last but not least, if you’re feeling extra generous, please rate and review us on iTunes.  Thanks!


VA: Yay Annie!

BL: Yay/

KJ: /Seriously, we were both adored by that.  We were just like “Oh God, that’s so cute”.

VA: I got chills, it was so/

BL: /Yeah, I was like guys, Annie.  Yeah I was like guys, you don’t have to use this.  Like don’t feel pressure, you don’t have to use it. [laughs]

VA: No, we had to.  It’s perfect. 

BL: Well thanks.  She’ll be, she’ll be thrilled to hear that you like it.

KJ: Because she’s waiting for an update/

BL: /She is/

KJ: /Hotly anticipating our updates, and what your fans think of her.  [laughter]

BL: Really don’t tweet us all that stuff we were saying to tweet us, just tweet us if you liked Annie’s social media. [laughter]

KJ: Regale us Annie, with social media information. [laughter] 

BL: Yeah.

KJ: So that’s it, right guys?

BL: Yeah.

VA: Yeah.

KJ: And by guys, I mean ladies.

VA: Heyo. 

KJ: Feminist ladies, yeah.  Shut me up.

BL: [laughing] No, you’re fine.  We don’t know when we’ll be back again.

VA: Nope, we never do. [laughter]

BL: We never. [laughter] If nothing else, this was a joy. [laughter]

VA: It was a pleasure as always.  I do love talking to you guys.  You ladies.

BL: Same.

KJ: Yes, ladies.  Get it right, get it right.

VA: It’s the patriarchy’s fault.

KJ: Thank you again everyone for listening and we hope you enjoy it.  And we will absolutely, positively, see you next time.

VA: Bye.

BL: Bye.

[End podcast]